Gabe Mollica is a playwright who made hay (or a play — heh heh) out of a love triangle from his younger days. Unfortunately, that also meant breaking up with country music. Yeah, the whole dang genre. He tells us about his divine relationship inspiration and we try to talk him back into giving country a chance.

LINKS

Use that code from the episode and get tickets to see Solo by Gabe Mollica at the SoHo Playhouse through the end of February.

Read more of Courtney's thoughts on the classic country that built her in the award-winning essay collection Woman Walk the Line.

Thanks so much to PodNews and Podcast the Newsletter for giving us shoutouts this week!

TRANSCRIPT

Melissa: Hello, I'm Melissa Locker. 

Courtney: And I'm Courtney E. Smith.

Melissa: And we are here to talk about Songs My Ex Ruined, on the show where we talk about songs that have been ruined by our exes. We are here today with comedian Gabe Mollica, who has an incredible off Broadway show. He is also here to tell us about a song that has been ruined for him by an ex. 

Gabe: Yeah, guys, thanks for having me. I really appreciate it. Your loyal listeners, get a promo code. Type in my name, Gabe, you get a little discount. 

Courtney: Very nice. For New Yorkers, Gabe Mollica’s Solo: A Show About Friendship, is happening right now. Go to SoHoPlayhouse dot com between now and February 25th to use that promo code on tickets. 

Gabe: Thank you, yeah. I got, I'm coming in with the goodies. The song I picked was “Colder Weather” by Zac Brown Band, and it's a very particular moment in my life. I'm sure a lot of your guests feel this way, where it's, “Oh, when I hear that song, I am 22.”

Gabe: And I was working at a summer camp upstate. And I'm like a New York City leftist, socialist, like, you know, hippie, you know, mushroom user. And you're in central New York, and suddenly like you're in the Confederacy kind of? Where there's just like conf- you're like, where am I? 

Courtney: It's very jarring. 

Gabe: Yeah. It's like we're north of Albany and all of a sudden like…

Melissa: Wait, there's north of Albany? 

Gabe: I know. There's people and everything, I know. Green! 

Courtney: The world ends at the Bronx. What do you mean? 

Gabe: And so I was working at a summer camp up there and like country music is just like on, and the people who like grow up in Albany like are like, “Oh, like we're country folk.” And so it's just kind of like on, and you're still at that age, like for me, early 20s where I'm like, “Who am I? What kind of music am I capable of liking?” And at first I heard Zac Brown Band. I'm like, well, this isn't like country pop in the sense of like a Bo Burnham parody. You know that song where…? 

Melissa: Yes, yes, the ultimate Country Pop, yes. 

Gabe: Yeah, yeah. Like that, that Bo Burnham, where he makes fun of just like stadium country. And so I'm like, okay, maybe I can get into this. This is a little more sophisticated. I was a music major, I can appreciate good music. And this woman I was seeing at the time, who's a character in my show actually — new name obviously — was just like really into Zac Brown Band. And we're we dated at camp, and it was very magical. Because I worked at a summer camp for kids with illnesses, and so the kids like, are some of the most special people in the world. And you form these really intense bonds with your counselors, because it's not just like you're playing games with them. You're like, you're changing diapers, you're doing showers. It's like a very intimate thing. So the people you work with, you're becoming really intimately close with. And you're like, “Whatever you like, like I must also like.” 

Courtney: Oh, interesting. 

Gabe: Yeah, and so it gets to this point where, for me — I don't know if you guys have ever felt this — where you're like, on your own time, you're like using their hobbies. You're like doing what they like to do, and this goes into like massive detail in the show. It's like a 75 minute show. But at one point, there's like a love triangle in my show, with me and a best friend and a girlfriend. And it's a long distance love triangle cause I'm living in the U.K. And I'm in the U.K., and I'm like trying to like stay connected to America. And like what's more folksy than trying to listen to country music alone? When the betrayal happens and the love triangle comes to fruition, there's a part of you like a week after, that kind of like body blow, where you're like, “Actually, I hate country music and I never want to listen to this again.” And every time I hear it I'm like, you are just, you just didn't know who you were because you were doing it on your own time. It wasn't just that you were listening in a group, you were like walking around the U.K. like, “I love country music.” And I was like, I actually hate this stuff.

Courtney: Okay, several questions.

Gabe: Please.

Courtney: First of all, what was the timeline when you would've been walking around the UK listening to country music? 

Gabe: Like 2014.

Courtney: And it wasn't Mumford and Sons? Like what?

Gabe: No, no. I think that's a good distinction cause like that was the year, those were the years of a lot of that like acoustic, pop, stadium… 

Courtney: Folk, retro… 

Gabe: Yeah, folk retro, but didn't know what it was gonna be. It gets a lot of flack on Twitter, that music, and sometimes some of those songs I'm like, this is a banger. 

Melissa: Like of Monsters and Men.

Courtney: The Lumineers. 

Gabe: Yes. 

Melissa: And Edward Sharp and the Magnetic Zeroes. 

Courtney: That fucking “Home” song. 

Melissa: Oh my God.

Courtney: In 2014, I remember being on the roof deck of my apartment building and thinking about pushing a girl over cause she kept playing it on repeat.

Gabe: Yep. 

Melissa: I had a married guy send me that song and tell me. It reminded him of me. Of him. Of me.

Gabe: Oh, that is a classic married guy move. That's so funny. 

Gabe: That is what a married guy would send.

Melissa: 100 percent. I was just like, you have questionable song taste and questionable morals. Excellent combination. 

Courtney: Well, Gabe, what was going on with this relationship? Was there an actual betrayal? 

Gabe: Yeah, in the sense of- the long and the short of it is, and I tell people this when I have an elevator pitch, and really the show is about not having friends. And the reason I say I don't have friends is cause when I was living in the U.K., my best friend and my girlfriend fell in love. 

Melissa:  Oh no. 

Gabe: And that's, and the next day I started doing standup. Like literally the next day. 

Courtney: Well, that's one way to exercise that demon.

Gabe: Truly, yeah. There's a line in the show where I'm like, “They got each other and I get whatever this is.”

Courtney: That's some good writing, Gabe. Like, not gonna lie.

Gabe: Thank you. Yeah, it's a really nice tension breaker in the show. Like I always can't wait to get there because I'm like, I actually don't know what this is and it's not a person, but I do like it.  

Melissa: It's like that, um, old joke, like, did you have a happy childhood or are you funny?

Gabe: Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, that’s super true. So, the thing about country music is in theory, I could get into it. Like the old timey stuff, like you hear Dolly Parton, you're like, hell yeah. But I don't know, for me, it's like the invasion of my private space where it's like, I'm not even with you talking about this music or driving around with you. You've like changed who I am when I'm alone, part of a relationship. Where it's like, man, we are really particularly at that age, like so susceptible to like what we think will get us this approval of this other person. And that's when the music part got like scary to me. That was like when I stopped listening to “Colder Weather” by Zac Brown Band. And every once in a while I'll hear it and be like, oh yeah, it's like nostalgic. But like when I act- if I were hear it twice, I'd be like, absolutely not. 

Melissa: It's so interesting cause so many of these songs people tell us about, it's one song and one moment. But you seem to have knocked out an entire genre. Like, you're like no country music whatsoever. I am done with that entirely. Like I don't think we've had anyone else have an entire genre destroyed by an ex before. 

Courtney: That's true. 

Gabe: Hilarious. You know what it was, too? It's that there's that other song, it's a Zac Brown Band song, where in the middle of it they like, like the bridge, they just praise the troops. I don't get- I don't suspect that you two are like, “Oh, I know that one.” Well, so some people are really into it. Do you know that song? “Chicken Fried?” There's like this bridge where they're: like jeans that fit right, and the United States military. 

Gabe: It always made me so uncomfortable, and I'd be at the bar with all the counselors and they're like really into it. And I'm like, this is weird. This is- I am the only normal on . 

Courtney: I just wanna say to my cousin, who's a former Marine that listens to this podcast and told me it sounded like a lot of man hating: This is not about you. This is not a moment about you. Everyone respects your service. Thank you. 

Gabe: Love the service. Wish we treated you better. That's what I, that's my issue. My issue is always, you can put out a giant thousand foot American flag in a football game, but are we gonna give you healthcare? Or free college? Like for me, that's the issue. It's not just like blindly loving the troops. 

Melissa: My sister-in-law works in housing homeless veterans. And I'm like, “Oh, you can't have a house, but you can have a Zac Brown Band bridge. 

Courtney: A shout out. 

Gabe: Zac  Brown Band will stop the concert to thank you. And it's like, I, I dunno, I'm not a military person, but I'm like, we could thank them with money.

Melissa: Thank them with stable housing and healthcare.

Courtney: So Gabe, I grew up in Texas and I live in Texas again now, I'm in Dallas. And country music is like in the air here. Some of the biggest stars in country now are Texans, although most of them don't live here anymore. But I had this moment with one of my friends who I've been friends with for 20 years, and we grew up in different parts of Texas and met each other through like the indie rock scene in Dallas when we were in our 20s. And we're sitting at a vegan taqueria. And all these old like Nitty Gritty Dirt Band and Conway Twitty songs are what's on the in-house jukebox. And we're both singing along and she just looks at me and she's like, “There's something really comforting about knowing that like we both just know these songs by osmosis because of Texas.”

Gabe: Yeah, Texas is so funny that way. You're at a vegan taco spot, but you're also still… 

Courtney: Singing “You and me goin’ fishin’ in the dark.”

Gabe: Yeah, yeah, there's something kind of magical about that. I went to Texas for the first time last year to do the show. I did it in Dallas. And, and I loved it. I like did not expect to love it. And I was like in Houston too, and I was like, this is the most diverse, incredible city. Shameless plug, but I'm going in September to work. I got a residency to work on my next solo show at the Amphibian Theater in Dallas. So you're invited. Come hang out. 

Courtney: Very cool. Well, when I'm not doing this podcast, I'm the editor of Eater Dallas. So come to me for any of, of your suggestions about where to eat.

Gabe: Look at that. Yeah, now we're talking. I'll be there a week. 

Courtney: But that's the thing, like country music is not a part of my personality really? But I know a lot about it because of living in the world. 

Melissa: And I feel like this could be like a country music redemption hour because, so in my spare time I also produce a Country Heat Weekly Amazon podcast all about country music. 

Gabe:Oh my God. Teach me. 

Melissa: But I was like you, like a year and a half ago, I knew absolutely nothing about country music except for old country. I knew Johnny Cash. I knew Hank Williams. I knew Patsy Cline, Loretta Lynn, Dolly. But I knew nothing about new country. And I gotta say there are some breakup bangers. If you had been listening to, let's say, Elle King or Priscilla Black or Miranda Lambert when you were- or like, oh my God, Carly Pierce, when you were walking around the U.K., you would've had a very different experience. You would've been like, “Screw them, screw them, I'm gonna go drink tequila. It's gonna be awesome.” 

Gabe: Yeah, hell yeah. I love hearing that. Yeah, you know what? It's funny you say that. There has been a small country redemption arc in my life and it is far from Zac Brown Band, because my friend, this woman, Lizzie No, she's in New York now. And she, we went on a date and we're just like, we are friends. It was a instant, “We should not be on a date, we should just be friends.” And she like came to my show and like, I listen to her music casually. 

Gabe: And so I've gotten into like her country stuff and it's almost like I needed like a personal, like someone in my life to be like, “Oh, this is what I like. This is what I wrote.” To like get, kind of get back into it, but it hasn't extended into like bring new stuff. So maybe you, maybe I'll send me an email.

Melissa:  Yeah, we can work, We can work this out. 

Gabe: Yeah, I can grow in my 30s. 

Courtney: The secret is all the really good country music is by women. Like men get all the airplay and all the attention. And it really, the good stuff is by the ladies.

Gabe: Yeah, Lizzie is from New Jersey, and just is an amazing country musician.

Melissa: Yeah. Or there's this new kid up and coming. His name's Breland, also from New Jersey. He has this song called “Praise the Lord,” which will make me start clapping. I do not clap along to anything.

Gabe: That's so funny.

Courtney: So, the other thing I want to say is, I think it's really interesting that you are processing this event by trying to limit it to something that is due to “that time in life.” And I am goning challenge that idea. I don't think that's true. I think we try on different identities and different ways of being forever. Like I find that I never stop doing that. And it's the influence of other people on you, like that never stops pushing you. There's never been a relationship where someone hasn't introduced me to new music, or the stuff that they're into or shared some experience that I haven't had with music. You're way more exploratory in your 20s, but I think it's not just that season of life. 

Gabe: You think there's hope for me? 

Courtney: Yeah, for sure. 

Gabe: To date someone who's into, I don't know, pop punk or something and get back into that or something?

Courtney: I mean, I definitely would not, but if you wanna be an elder emo, knock yourself out.

Melissa: Oh, elder emo. I love that. You can totally have blink-182 stickers on your cane 

Gabe: That's so funny. Geriatric millennial, that's how I feel. Elder emo, elder emo is really funny. 

Courtney: People really identify as that, which I think is interesting. But what I'm thinking about is something in my own life where like my most recent relationship, he went through a period where he'd been in bands a lot and was trying to be in a band again. And randomly because his friend was in one, joined this country band that played covers. And he didn't know anything about country music. And then it was like our whole relationship went through this phase of like, I knew a lot more about it than he did. And so we had ended up talking about it, talking about what songs they were covering, and talking about this sort of black hole in his knowledge. And going country dancing, and discovering he didn't actually know how to two-step? That someone taught him how to Tennessee two-step and not Texas two-step. Which are different. And just like, it became, this whole thing that was like for a little while was the center of our relationship, but it wasn't either of our personalities, really. It was something we were trying on and doing. 

Gabe: Yeah, I want to try more. I want to try on more things. I guess now that you've framed it in that way, I'm less embarrassed.

Courtney: Yeah, you shouldn't be embarrassed. I mean, Zac Brown can support the troops and…

Gabe: Yeah, and I'll support him.

Courtney: Whatever makes you feel good. Your new partner, whoever it might be. 

Melissa: Yeah. Do you ever make it out to Los Angeles?

Gabe: I'm going next week. 

Melissa: So you should go to the country line dancing party that takes over,it’s called Stud Country, but Amanda Montell was on the show a couple weeks ago and she was telling us about it. And she went, and she's been taking a bunch of our other friends, and everybody's doing like country line dancing. And apparently it's so much fun even though no one really knows how to do it. And they're all just learning the steps and like figuring it out. So maybe you should try there. Just get in touch with your inner country artist.

Gabe: Yeah. God, I picked the right song because... 

Courtney: Yeah, you did. You picked the right song and the right story. Are we gonna change the trajectory of your whole show right now?

Gabe: Well, you know, it's also funny, I was thinking about this song, there's so many details- you know, your life is so long and the show is so short. And so there's always like little details, little anecdotes that you wanna like slip in there. And just like to pause in the middle of an hour in to be like, this is the music we're listening to. Like, I just don't have the time. But if it were the novel of my life, we could do three pages about this is what we would do. This is like what we would listen to. This is how it permeated my life. But I just like, don't have time for that. You know? 

Courtney:  First of all, no. Like, you have to make time to talk about the music that was important. That's a huge part of things. Obviously, we're biased here at this podcast. 

Gabe: I know. I wanna get into the food. There's like certain foods you'd eat. It just, like a certain type of relationship can take over your life, and certainly at that age. 

Melissa: When we asked you to be on this show, we had no idea that it was really like this song would be the basis of your entire Off-Broadway show. Like it's kind of amazing.

Gabe: It's like a silent partner. It's like emblematic of this, like other- of this failed relationship. But yeah, I mean, honestly, maybe I'm doing it tonight at nine. Maybe I'll, maybe I'll see if I can slip it in. 

Melissa: Oh, please do. 

Courtney: Yeah, please do. Is there an intermission in the show?

Gabe:  There's not. 

Melissa: Can you pay someone just to stand up and just like full on, put the boombox over their head and start playing Zac Brown Band? 

Gabe: Plant somebody in the audience. I'd love to. You kidding? That's great. 

Courtney: Or that's what happens right before the show starts while people are taking their seats: Zac Brown Band.

Gabe: You know what's funny? All the music I picked for the pre-show I like, like I was putting together a playlist and it was like, too sad. And I was like, I just need music that like feels good. And so it's just all the music that they play in School of Rock. 

Courtney: Oh my god. Wow.

Melissa: I'm much more interested in sad songs. So what songs did you originally choose that were too sad?

Gabe: When I was doing it? So I used to end the show with a Mountain Goats song, which is “Woke Up New.” As the show's evolved, it's gotten a little bit more joyful. The ending is less about mourning one friendship and embracing the limitations of another that's like actively in my life, and somebody who like is flawed but shows up, is like the thesis. And so now it ends with “Ooh La La” by Faces.

Gabe: There's a Wes Anderson movie… 

Melissa: Rushmore. 

Gabe: Rushmore ends with that. And when I saw Rushmore, I was like, this show is like my Rushmore a little bit. It's like the thing of my early life. And it's feels like this. It feels like a little homage to Rushmore. 

Melissa: One of my favorite things about that movie is so stupid, but the fact that he's bad at literally everything, except for organizing, is so great. I'm just like, yes. Like just fail. Go so hard and just be terrible and just keep going. Don't like the fact that you suck stop you. Like, I love that. So much. I think it's such a valuable lesson.

Gabe: Totally. He just commits fully, like when they're doing the plays and he has like automatic weapons, that they're like firing off. Like the budget of the school is like insane.  It's so good.

Melissa: Yeah, and then there's this one scene where the dean of the prep school is all like, he's our worst student, and everyone's just like, “Yup.” 

Gabe: My buddy Nick got me into that movie and he's like, I saw it in high school and I didn't get it. I didn't get why he was bad. Like I associated like high achiever, extracurricular people with like people who are like perfect at everything. And the movie is exactly what you're saying. Like the movie is, he's bad. He like doesn't, he's out of his depth. But he's curious in a way that like other people aren't. That's what like kind of makes an artist, hopefully.

Melissa: Yeah, it's just that incredible like growth mindset of just being like, “I'm just gonna keep doing things and someday maybe something will work out.” 

Gabe:  Totally.

Courtney: Why is the Mountain Goats song so important? 

Gabe: So, what's funny about the show is not a breakup show about a romantic relationship. It's a breakup friendship show. And so I wanted a song, “Woke Up New” is like about a romantic relationship, and I just reappropriated it for a friendship. And that kind of felt exciting to me and like very, I think my feeling was like, “h, if the Mountain Goats saw the use of this, they'd be like, cool.”

Courtney: They would, John Darnell loves this shit. I think he would be way into it.

Gabe: Yeah, yeah. I feel like the gender bendy-ness of it, I thought was cool. Yeah, and the Mountain Goats, they're like a somewhat, not relatively new discovery, but like within the last five years. And I have a buddy that whenever they come to town, we just go now. So I've seen them now five or six times. They've become very important to me. 

Courtney: So you're trying on the Mountain Goats? 

Gabe: I am. I am trying on the Mountain Goats with A.J., my buddy. And we've discovered some, when they play New York, they play a couple nights in a row and through trial and error we've discovered the last night of their stop in New York is always like the craziest. So we're like, we always go to the last night now. 

Courtney: Very nice. 

Melissa: Oh, that's fun. 

Melissa: Can you tell people where they can find you, where they can see your show, where they can just stock you at Mountain Goats shows?

Gabe: Yeah, every Mountain Goats show is just full of New York City comedians who look like me. You're like, we're all here.

Courtney: That's true. That's not a lie. 

Melissa: Oh, It's like when I, last time I went to a Slow Dive show and I looked around and I was like, oh, this is where all the 37 year old men are. Got it.

Gabe: Yep, DMing you Edward Sharp for the Magnetic Zeros. I'm @GabeMollica, and my show runs off Broadway for another five weeks as of right now. And I'm doing it in Los Angeles. And if you're in the Dallas area, I'm coming in September to the Amphibian for five shows. It's a new hour that basically I haven't started yet, but it's about American healthcare. And it's like a new, I have an idea for like half personal storytelling, half John Oliver episode live, is the idea. 

Courtney: Well obviously I'll be there.

Gabe: Yeah, heck yeah. 

Melissa: I can't wait to hear that soundtrack cause I can't quite figure out what that'd be. But now I'm really intrigued. 

Courtney: Just Phil Collins’ “In the Air Tonight,” obviously. 

Gabe:  Yeah, of course. Why not? 

Courtney: Thank you so much, Gabe. It was such a pleasure to have you on. 

Gabe: This was a blast. 

Courtney: Reclaim country music for your own. But go with the ladies.

Melissa: Email us. We will send you a playlist. 

Gabe: You're the coolest.