LINKS

Listen to Jesse Sparks' wonderful podcast, The One Recipe, everywhere you get your podcasts.

You can also read and follow Jesse's work on Eater, like this so cutting takedown of nonsense ice cream flavors.

TRANSCRIPT

Melissa: Hello, I'm Melissa Locker. 

Courtney: And I'm Courtney E. Smith 

Melissa: And you are listening to Songs My Ex Ruined, the show where we talk about songs that have been ruined by our exes. 

Courtney: We're so excited to have Jesse Sparks with us this week. Jesse is an editor at Eater.com and the host of an amazing, wonderful podcast you should check out called The One Recipe. And Jesse and I know each other through the Eater Texas connection. There's a whole slack room, only Texas people are allowed in it, and no, you're not invited. 

Jesse: No you're not. Sorry. 

Courtney: Welcome, Jesse. 

Melissa: I'm offended. Considering I'm the only other person in this room, I'm a little offended, but okay. 

Jesse: Oh my God. Sorry, sorry, Melissa. Sorry, Courtney. 

Courtney: Texas forever. 

Jesse: Texas forever.

Courtney: Sorry not sorry. 

Melissa: I mean, I've seen a lot of Friday Night Lights. 

Courtney: Hey, that', honorary Texan status, right? That counts. 

Jesse: That counts. Oh my gosh, I feel like anytime I have the chance to corner Courtney, I will take it. So this is just Eater habits kicking in. I apologize, Melissa. I apologize listeners, but we always want everyone to join us at the dinner table, so we're all good.

Courtney: Exactly. So, we don't really mess around on this podcast, Jesse. We get right to the main question, which is please tell us about a song that an ex ruined for you?

Jesse: Oh my gosh. Woo, okay, well as always, I love getting, you know, my heart just immediately ripped out right from the get-go. Let's, let's dive right into it. 

Melissa: That's what we're here for. 

Jesse: Listen, crying hours, let's get into it. So yeah, so my song is going to be peak 2010s energy. It is the song “Omen” by Disclosure and Sam Smith.

Jesse: This song is poppy. It feels like you're in the middle of a nightclub at like an ungodly hour, like two o'clock in the morning, and you're dancing. And you're sweaty. And everything's like flashing lights. And you're, you know, got that, that 20s liver. Yep, oh, y'all are already there. The taste of Fireball on your tongue.

Courtney: Oh God. 

Jesse: Right? Exactly. So this was kind of the song that I had played when I had first moved to New York for what was kind of like this big deal job. It was a big deal job at the same time as I was getting into a big deal like situationship/relationship. During a big deal like summer, that's gonna change my friends and my friends' group lives, cause we're all moving to New York at the same time and doing all of these like Devil Wears Prada recreations. With our little journalist nerd hearts. And I met a boy, we started going to all these restaurants, and fell into the like, fast friendship, like “Wow, there's so much more, sparks!” things. And eventually I ended up staying longer than just a summer. So all of these summer fling type things started to get very real, very serious. And I was like, “Okay, well what does it mean to you know, be completely changing my relationship to what I thought was just gonna be a summer and maybe what this other person thought was just going to be a summer?” And it's funny because I've got more and more certain about, you know, kind of loving this song, loving the momentum that this kind of stage of my life had that I was like, “You know what? It's okay that the situationship doesn't really pan out.” Spoiler alert. It's okay that, you know, this summer looks a little bit different at the end than I thought it would at the beginning. But at the end of the day, I came out of it down a favorite song that I would play at the gym, that I would play while cooking, that I would play like while waiting for a text back that I knew might come or it might come in like four to six of business days. Who knew? Didn't matter. I had this as the background music. And by the time, you know, everything ended up ending with that partner, I kind of realized, you know what the most fun about it all was just that I opened myself up to new opportunities and new things. You know, typically, I'm not someone that's super electronically-focused in terms of music. I'm typically not someone who's super, super clubby, you know, with my music. Typically, I'm like acoustic softy, like sitting by a window and just like staring in the distance longingly, like I'm waiting for my husband to return from like… 

Courtney: Oh, Jesse. A husband lost at sea.

Melissa: Yeah, I just feel like you recreated like the Sleepytime tea box. You're like the little bear by the fire. 

Courtney: Amazing.

Jesse: Melissa, I love you so much because you have already captured one of my life's aspirations, is just to be that little bear in that night shirt with the little like nightcap on, just dozing off by the door.

Courtney: Well, so based on what you're telling me, this relationship was casual. And then, living in New York, like becoming somebody who was staying there made it less casual. That put some pressure on it, so that made it more difficult to sustain? Or just it made it more real? Like what happened after that pressure came into the situation?

Jesse: So I think part of why I had so much fun with it at the beginning was because it was kind of unlabeled, you know? We were just like, “Okay, is this going to be more? Is this just, you know, two kids like in, in the city for the summer and it's going to be like a little short film and then we keep it pushing?” But what's funny about it was in the actual moment, we had more just been treating it like dating for a standard relationship. So, it kind of felt like there was already that direction and that momentum towards a specific goal. But it was more nice because we weren't really taking it as seriously. I don't know if it comes across this way from the interview so far, I'm not always the chillest person. Not meaning that like, I'm like antagonist. 

Courtney: True, facts. 

Jesse: Okay, you didn't have to answer so readily. Melissa is giving me the courteous, like, I'll wait before I nod. 

Courtney: That tracks, that seems true.

Jesse: Love an in-house fact check. But yeah, I'm someone who's just like, “Okay, well if we've got 15 ideas, we've got time for about five. Let's find a way to make 10 happen and at the bare minimum, if we can only make seven happen, that's okay.” You know, like maybe the process isn't always going be like perfect, but I always want make sure that we can make the most of whatever it is. And I kind of had that approach, but also abandoned it a little bit and more was just going to say, “Let's just see where it goes. Let's have fun. Listen to like whatever the vibes are in the moment. And then from there we'll keep on talking. We'll keep on checking in.” And along the way I found out, okay, so this is someone who's like freshly out of a relationship. And I didn't realize that at first. And we kind of talked about it and we're like, “Okay, well, what comes next?” And worked through that together, and then got onto like, okay, well now we're in the meeting friends territory, staying over longer at each other's places territory. That like semi moved in, semi still trying to like hide your identity a little bit cause you're like, who knows? This could be a Nigerian prince just asking the one email with some critical information that could save the day. But no, it, it ended out being kind of perfect and I was like, you know what? Even if it doesn't end or go in the direction that we were planning for it, we ended up just having so much fun by saying, “Okay, what can we do instead of what we knew to do in college or what we knew to do before that?” I feel like there's so much pressure when you're in your 20s and starting to get into your 30s and hell, in your 30s and 40s to really have this like picture perfect definition of what every relationship is going to be, what every song is going to sound like. And this one was kind of the moment where it's like, hey, it's okay for the song that captures the moment and the dynamic in your relationship to be one of the super hyperpop, hyper-clubby like saturate sweet club anthems. And that's kind of what “Omen” was that summer. It was everywhere. 

Courtney: It was everywhere. What was “Omen” in your relationship? 

Jesse: Oh my gosh. So, this is actually perfect because it was mine in a way that I think I loved. So, it was a song that we had heard together, but we didn't really listen to it together. And instead this was more the song that I was playing when I was, you know, at the gym and would get a little text from him that it was just like, “Hey, I know you get bored during X thing. Like here's a little thing to keep you entertained.” It was the like, okay, you know what? I am a bad B getting ready for a dinner date. So, you know what, we're gonna play a little slightly sexy song, still keep it PG 13. And you know, put on my little hot pants and then we'll go out and we'll stumble into a party that will turn into us getting dinner with people we meet at the bar and that kind of thing. 

Melissa: Oh, that sounds just like those perfect New York summers where it's just like you walk out of the house and you never quite know what's gonna happen. And like the weather's good. You step outside and you meet some people. Then you meet some more people and yeah, like it's the perfect like New York evening. 

Jesse: Yes. Oh, Melissa, you get it. It was exactly that. 

Melissa: Yeah, are you like a lyrics person or a like a music person? Like was it the, were you like, I don't know, projecting yourself into the song lyrics? Or was it just like the tempo and the beat, the danciness of it all? 

Jesse: I am a lyrics person through and through. I will, woo, I will destroy my own emotions just remembering some beautifully crafted lyrics. And it was a reminder of both kind of being able to see the signs and still enjoy the ride, even when you know, like, okay, yeah, I can get the gist that this isn't going to turn into, you know, that one fairytale relationship, right? That we've all been raised on and instead I can say, “You know what, I appreciate this exactly for what it is right now.” Yes, it's a relationship. Yes, it's different from, you know, the summer kind of fantasies you moved to New York with. In the moment still I was happy. I was satisfied. I still am when I look back on it, you know, so it's one of those songs that I don't need to listen to anymore because very specific time and place. And also it tastes like Fireball and very bad Dark and Stormys. So because of that, I'm like, maybe I don't need to do this on a daily basis. But, I can appreciate. 

Melissa: oh, I love the fact that the song has a taste. 

Jesse: Oh yeah, 

Courtney: Yeah, you’re the first person to bring that to the table. It's amazing. 

Jesse: I can't tell if this is better or worse for the show, but happy to contribute it. 

Courtney: For better, definitely for better. 

Jesse: Yes. 

Melissa: Did you guys live in New York when PS1, like the contemporary museum that was in Long Island City, would do their summer warmup series? 

Courtney: Yes, and those were so good. Oh my gosh.

Jesse: They were great.

Melissa: Those were so like, I think they may have brought them back, but maybe slightly different, but they were so much fun. And like those nights where it's like it's hot and crowded and everyone was just, I don't know. I just remember I was there one time and like Philip Johnson had like put the first record on and it was just like a full on crazy dance party. But they did have terrible drinks and so yeah, I feel like I could actually kind of taste those early like PS1 dance parties, but I could also see them playing this song very easily. 

Courtney: Well, we were all living in New York when this song was out, and for me it was “Latch” that was like absolutely the shit I was addicted to.

Oh my gosh. That was just a banger for too long. Way too long. 

Jesse: It's incredible. 

Melissa: Yeah, I saw Disclosure play at Coachella and they brought out Sam Smith and AlunaGeorge. But I just remember like it, they did, like they weren't, they're not exactly my type of music, but they did turn like that entire desert into a dance party. Which, you know, it's- sometimes there's just really good dance songs that you wouldn't really listen to anywhere else.

Courtney: I saw Sam Smith at Madison Square Garden in 2015 and he brought out Disclosure for the last song for them to do “Omen” and “Latch” together. And it was incredible. It was so cute. And he was wearing a tuxedo cause he was so excited to play MSG. 

Jesse: Oh my gosh. 

Melissa: That's cute. 

Courtney: It was real cute. 

Jesse: Bring back the earnestness, bring back the reminder that like, yeah, this is gonna be a memory- we won't wanna taste it again. We don't need another like PS1 cocktail or a bad Dark and Stormy. 

Melissa: Yeah. Or Fireball. I think I never need Fireball again.

Courtney: Yeah, agree. 

Melissa: Oh, it's like that and Goldschläger?

Courtney: Oh my God. God, that reminds me of bad college decisions.

Melissa:. I know. I mean, this is probably TMI, but I'm just gonna go with it, which is like somebody once, I was at a karaoke bar and someone, big spender, bought a round of Goldschläger shots for the house. And all I know is that I was outside on the street puking Goldschläger, and I just kept thinking how it was gold flexed, so pretty.

Courtney:  Ooh, that's disgusting.

Jesse:. Okay, I do have to say, good lord, shout out to that one person who is like, “Ah, yes, I'm going to antagonize everyone in this very specific way. Everyone's gonna have a great time, but when they see the gold they'll remember me.” 

Melissa: And also the worst night possible, right?

Courtney: Jesse, I want tell you a story. This is about Sam Smith. So I interviewed Sam circa 2014 or ‘15 when just their EP was out and the tracks with Disclosure. Everything was very new, they were not well known yet. And they came in and looked really cute, but young — so young. I mean, it's crazy that that's 10 years ago now, almost. It's wild to me. But I took a couple snaps from like the- we were on the 40-something floor in Midtown, and so there's this great vista of New York behind them. And Sam's like, “Can I just see them before you post them on social or anything? I just wanna know what they look like.” And I show the pictures to Sam and they're just like, “Oh my God, these are beautiful.” They look so angelic and, but the thing that killed me about it was the reason that they wanted to see was because they were afraid that they might look fat. And I was just like, “Oh my gosh, this is heartbreaking!” Cause I thought that they were very pretty and very young and like gorgeous. And they were already worried about body image issues, you know, which is just… rip my heart out, why don't you? 

Jesse: Oh my gosh.

Melissa: That is sad.

Jesse: Ugh. That's... Courtney, you have perfect timing for everything. So, a little tidbit that I wasn't sure I was gonna share or not, but now that you've shared the Sam Smith story, I have to. But like part of why “Omen” was so important was also because, you know, as I would be, at the gym trying to like do the whole, “Okay, I'm gonna be like a New York gay. Like I'm gonna do it. Oh, I'm gonna have a six pack. And ahhhhh!” And I was just like, you know what? I don't need to do this. You know, like I have always been a little bit bigger. I've always been stockier. I've never felt that was an issue, outside of like what people tried to tell me was an issue about it. And you know, for so long it wasn't until the end of the summer where I could listen to this and not be like, “Ah well I should be running. ‘Cause normally I listen to the song while I'm running.” Or, “I should be working out. Cause normally I would listen to the song while I'm working out.” Cause you know, I'm trying to like be on the same level as this person I'm seeing. And if this person is hot and gorgeous and descended from heaven and has had angels kissing their forehead from the beginning. I was like, “Whoa, whoa, wait, wait, wait. This is another human. This is just a date and. They probably feel the same way about me.” Or we all have that same tendency to put the people that we're on these romantic journeys with onto these pedestals and be like, “They're so much better than I am. They're so much kinder, they're so much more thoughtful. They're so much X, Y, and Z more.” And really it's like, okay, well, I if I'm gonna keep loving this song and if I'm gonna keep enjoying this relationship, even if it ends, no matter how it ends, I have to also be okay with just having it be a song. And having it be like, yes, a lot of the fun and the flexibility, but also it needs to be about me just being happy in this relationship with the person that my crush is in the dynamic with, is in the relationship with, and that's that. So, at the end of the day, we got there by the end of the summer. 

Melissa: Yeah. Did you see the movie Fire Island? 

Jesse: Yes. Ugh, yes I did. 

Melissa: I thought, I thought they just did such a great job sort of addressing that same topic. I feel like being a gay man sounds really, really high pressure because there is so much, yeah, just pressure to be like your fittest, finest self.

Jesse: Yeah, it's like a weird, like field day kind of? Where they're all these teams, there are all these clubs. And some of the clubs and teams are just like, I didn't even realize y'all had a team. I thought we was hanging out. Okay, cool. I'm down. Let's do it. But it can definitely be really hard especially as you're trying to navigate this community again, because originally I'm from Houston. So, so many of my cultural indicators for kind of all of my reference points for what dating looked like and how I talked about how I related to certain communities had changed because just cause the context was different, you know? So then being surrounded by like all these people who are like 0.2% body fat, I was like, “Yeah, no I don't, I don't want that.” If you're happy with that and if that's fulfilling for you, go for it. But I've stressed myself out long enough trying to become all of these different things, when really now I just need to focus on just taking the shot. Just taking the gold flake shot, you know, throw up in the street and enjoy making the mistakes and just having a first time. And that's kind of what “Omen” reminds me of now. It's like, okay, you did the things you di you made out, you threw up, you danced until it was perfect, and there was still an after. And that's, and that's cool. I think it's a nice reminder that romantic love is not the beginning or the end. It's just a thing that makes the journey really more exciting.

Courtney: So, how long after did it take you to process and come to this conclusion? Because, was like 24 year old Jessie figuring this out, or…? 

Jesse: Woo, uh, 24 year old Jessie was, was focused on crying and…  

Courtney: Yeah, of course, of course. 

Jesse: And just like being dramatic. So I was like re-watching all of my favorites, like romcoms and stuff. Like, I went to the bakery that's in You've Got Mail just to be dramatic and buy a pastry, even though I lived in Crown Heights and the bakery in that movie is literally on the opposite side. 

Melissa: Yeah, this is worth two subway rides. 

Jesse: I will dramatically transfer trains as I look out so many windows just to see the city and like, I'll be like, “Wow, no one on this train knows that I’m sad over a heartbreak. No, no one knows.” 

Courtney: The beautiful anonymity of the subway. 

Jesse: And it’s like, girl, you're a large man leaning against the window on the subway. It's pretty clear. I don’t know if you've ever seen someone sad on the subway, it's not easy to be sad and like have it not be obvious on the train.

Courtney: Have I cried while reading a book on the subway? So many times. 

Melissa: Oh yeah, crying in New York is like the best thing. It's like, I feel like you're a real New Yorker when you're just like sobbing somewhere. Normally it's a Build-A-Bear, but otherwise, other places work too. 

Jesse: Yes, oh my gosh. There have been times- okay. Well, when the Dear Evan Hansen soundtrack came out, it came out around the same time - so I was just like, or a little bit later, I may have been reflecting who knows anymore. But I was like, holding a book but really just listening to the soundtrack and just like was getting choked up. I was like, wow, there's, there's so many meditations on like mental health and perfectly navigating youth. And then I realized I was holding a book upside down as I was just crying a little bit about this boy just singing about being single. I was like, okay it's literally gonna be fine. It's okay. I need to reel it in, I'm doing too much. Yeah, I just think it's fun to be able to be in a city that you love so much, but that also- I think a lot of people mistake New York’s I guess apathy is the closest way to describe it. I think a lot of people mistake it as being malicious, when in a lot of ways I think that apathy is an act of kindness because it gives so many people the space to kind of navigate their feelings and to figure out so much of what they don't know. Because so many of us are doing things for the first time after moving to a different city or are trying to even just change the way that we navigate relationships we've been in forever. For that, it makes me feel, I don't know, more like it's okay to fuck up. It's okay to cry about the stupid heartbreak you saw coming a mile away. It's okay to know better and to have done your best to do better, but to still end up and some of the patterns that you were in before. Not because you didn't try or because you're trying to be self-destructive, but just because you did try and it still doesn't work out. And I think we need to talk about that being okay too a little bit more often. Cause a lot of people think, “Okay, well if I just navigate a relationship with good intentions, if I go in wanting to like this song then it'll all work out and it'll be picture perfect.” But in practice it's more like, “Hey, I listened to this song more times than I can count. I hear it in nightmares and dreams and yet I still love this song. I'm still appreciative of the time that it was, but I also know that I can't wait to hear so many other songs.” And that's something that kind of keeps me going. 

Courtney: So ,we've seen why Jesse is a sought after and celebrated writer and editor, because wasn't that the most poetic thing anyone has said on this podcast to date?

Melissa: Yeah, I am… I'm stunned into silence which does not happen that often.

Courtney: Never happens. 

Melissa: Yeah, well done. I quit. 

Jesse: No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Please, please don't. Please don't quit.

Courtney: No, that was amazing. That was really beautiful. I love that. I think this has been one of the best conversations I've had in my life about the vibe of being in love and new to New York and in love with New York and your 20s, which is such a thing so many people go through. So many people experience it, but your take on it is really like beautifully reflective and emotional and vulnerable, and that's so great. It’s really heart warming. 

Jesse: Thank  you. I really appreciate it. The two of you have been amazing to talk to, so y'all made it incredibly easy. I do wanna add a small disclaimer though 

Melissa:  Please. 

Jesse: A reminder for people. I'm gonna get really onto the mic. But I just wanna remind everyone that when I'm talking about New York, it's not just because New York is this only place that magic can happen. It's just that it was the place where I got to experience a lot of firsts again for the first time, especially after, you know, coming out in suburban Texas. So for a lot of reasons it was like, okay, I'm relearning how to do all of this, but you can have your firsts or you can have your magical experiences in any city. You don't even have to move. It's just about giving yourself the space to try something again. So that's all that it is. I just think a lot of media folks put a glow on New York City. 

Courtney: That's true. 

Jesse:  And almost make it seem like magic isn't anywhere else. As Melissa and Courtney are reminding you all, it's everywhere. 

Melissa: Yeah, but I will say I've been thinking about New York a lot lately, mostly cause I was just there and was walking around. And I realize so much of the New York like, magic is really because it's a walkable city. It's like, it's so weird. Just like you're like, oh, right. Like those nights where you do just step out and just go see what happens. It's because you're walking everywhere. You can run into people. You see people on the street, you see people on the sidewalks, you're in the subway. You just, you know, adventures happen because you can just walk everywhere or you can take the excellent public transportation. So honestly, this is all an argument for better urban planning. 

Jesse: Yes, yes, honestly. 

Melissa: It kind of is. It's just like…

Courtney: Melissa's vibe is marrying pragmatism and romance. I mean, this all tracks to me too, like this makes sense. 

Melissa: So, while I have two Texas folks on the show, I would love to talk about a song. And that is the opening theme song of Friday Night Lights. Like can you even listen to anything by Explosions in the Sky without immediately thinking of like, Tim Riggins being all Texas forever? Or you know, Matt Saracen crying. Like that song is so powerful. 

Courtney: I don't know about you, Jesse, but I, that happened for me when the Friday Night Lights movie came out and a lot of this music was in it. And even before the TV show, like I was so happy that everyone got to experience this as a TV show. And I would not read that book cause I'm not a high school football person. But I think you and I have both probably come from places where high school football was the most important thing. On Friday night, you were at the game, home or away, no matter what. Just because there was literally nowhere else to be. That's where everyone was. And so many of the things that happened in that movie actually happened in my high school experience that I was just like, this is alarming and also I feel very attached to it. So that my reaction to that music is so visceral. What I thought was really funny was, my friend Marah Egan, who was at the AV Club for a long time, whenever Friday Night Lights came out the TV show came out she wanted to talk to me about it. And I was like, “God, that's just like my high school experience,” meaning the movie. And she's like, “Oh my gosh, it must have been so inspiring.” I was like, no, not that part. 

Melissa: Oh, you, you mean season 2 when they murder somebody and then never talk about it again? That was really inspiring. 

Courtney: That probably happened, yeah. 

Melissa: That was extremely inspiring for me. I wasn't in Texas, but I still was like, “Oh, cool, you can get away with murder.” 

Courtney: I mean, in West Texas.

Jesse: Listen, be careful. 

Courtney: In West Texas, yes, there's certain parts. 

Jesse: Yep. Yep, yep, yep, yep. Oh my gosh. But then also there were some parts where- it's such a fun experience. You can literally watch someone if they're from Texas and you can hear their voice go up a few octaves cause then they're like, “Ah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It was kinda like that. It was, it was like the show.”  But, but yeah, no so many of the plot lines in that show are directly ripped from like local news of what's happening at the high school. Like, I wish I were being dramatic. And a weird, small fact that I don't always love to share… Friday Night Lights, the school principal is actually based on my- a man who's like my grandfather, but he is my godfather. His name was Clarence Russo. He was the principal and then a superintendent for one of the Dallas districts. And because of that, like I have worked so hard to try to escape this show, and then I'm like, “Ah, yes, it reminded me of my high school experience.” Or it's like, “Ah yes, this man is my grandfather.” so I was just like, “Ah, yes, I can't wait to never talk about this show again.”

Courtney: Texas  is big, but Texas is very small. Like, same as New York City. Isn't it weird how that vibe is the same like the Texas to New York City, the psychological profile of extreme independence is very congruent and the idea that it's really big, but it's actually really small is… just a nice throughline.

Jesse: It's, it's wild cause I'm like, I don't get how more people don't realize how similar so many of these places are. Like if you take away some of the more core, like fundamental differences, like, accessible… 

Courtney: The values can be quite different.

Jesse: Right, I'm like, aside from accessible and walkable cities, and the importance of those, but also cultural flexibility. I think it's also interesting that so many people are so cult following, obsessed with the independence but also the dream of that place. Yeah, so I think Texas and New Yorkers are so similar in that way, and I still hear the music. 

Courtney: Oh yeah. I mean it's a very specific association. I can't even begin to tell you the like word cloud of emotions that come with hearing that music. It's a lot. 

Melissa: I know. It's so interesting too, because it's, Explosions in the Sky is not what I think most people would think of as emblematic of Texas. Like you'd think more like Willie Nelson or, I don't know, something like…  

Courtney: For sure, but I mean, I don't- I grew up in Texas. I was in college in the ‘90s and there was a huge explosion of North Texas and Oklahoma psych rock bands. So like the Flaming Lips, and they were down here all the time, Mazinga Phaser we're playing all over. Like, there was just a lot of that kind of Spiritualized vibe. So there's something- like Melissa, when you came to Texas and I was driving you from the airport, you're just constantly talking about the sky. And there's something about that that lends itself to this sort of stoner, bigger than life, too huge music like that.

Jesse: Oh yeah. And I think in so many ways be if you're growing up in it, you almost learn to take it for granted. Just because you're just like, okay, well this big sky is all I've known. I don't get how you can have a small sky. And then it's not until you move into like, a super urban, super compact city that you're just like, oh wait, so many people are, are so used to either these thin stretches or, or like these kind of hash marks of, of clear sky interrupted by buildings and architecture. 

Courtney: The most poetic and meanest thing anybody ever said to me in my life was when I was moving to New York this guy that I interned for at a radio station in Dallas, we would watch the sunsets every Sunday night while his radio show was on. And right before I was going to leave, he was like, “You know, they don't have sunsets like this in New York.” And I was just, God dammit. That's true, but how dare you? 

Jesse: Ah, yes. Salt, meet wound. Yeah, just rub it right in. 

Courtney: Just brutal. 

Jesse:  But one of my other favorite things that kind of goes back to what Melissa was saying was just- I think it's a perfect choice for Friday Night Lights that it's not one of the top of mind artists that you think of. It's not a Willie Nelson. It's not something with a really, like overtly recognizable cover or sample or anything like that, because that's kind of in line with how so many people actually relate to Texas. Like it's not just this one thing. It's so much more than the really curated, I guess, understandings and imagery that so many people are familiar with. And instead it's much more about having this kind of emblematic anthem that is still going to be so much different than what you're expecting on a daily basis. And every single listen, you notice something different. You notice something new, you notice a change. And to me, that is so much more emblematic of how living in Texas kind of feels, because then you're more… grappling with how every single day, if you're in a different neighborhood, if you're at a different restaurant, it's a completely different place compared to like the four years you spent beforehand. And I think that's one of my favorite things about it. It's just that it's not just one thing. I get to have a new start here, too. That's actually something I made peace with when I moved back at the end of the pandemic to be close with some family who are having some health issues. In a lot of ways this was that new beginning too, so y'all found a way to make it all full circle. A+ to y'all. 

Melissa: Yeah, we appreciate that. Thank you for doing our job for us.

Courtney: Question A, Jesse, will you sign on to write my obituary? And question B, tell us about The One Recipe. Tell us about your podcast. What are you doing over there? 

Jesse: Oh my gosh. Okay, so A, I have no doubts you're going to outlive me, so please write mine. We'll just have two very long Google Docs. 

Melissa: Oh, yes. Let's crowdsource your obituary, please.

Courtney: I think that's a great idea cause otherwise my family will do it and that's terrifying. Crowdsourced is better. Wikipedia page is better. 

Jesse: This is how I know I'm not really the greatest person, but I was just like, I should probably just write my obituary in advance and then supply that to my family. 

Courtney: I feelt he same!

Jesse: I love my family. Punctuation and grammar are not always our strongest suits. But outside of that The One Recipe is a food and culture show all about recipes. Sorry for the plot twist. Didn't mean to catch people off guard. But we get to talk to a lot of people about one recipe that they really love, whether it's one they always keep in their back pocket, one that has a super special meaning or significance to them, or one that might influence or represent a change to their cooking styles that they're embodying. So we're talking to Hannah Che about what vegan Chinese cooking looks like and how she kind of carved her own space in the various communities that she was navigating. We're talking with people like Soleil Ho about Mở Hành, their scallion oil. And we're talking to just all these people about different things that just remind them why they love to cook and eat. So it's a lot of fun. We try to have a good time. There are a lot of puns. I apologize in advance, but if you can endure that, you can endure anything. And we'll have a good time.

Courtney: I think it's a great podcast and I love it because it's also like, a spiritual sibling to this podcast. Because it's really just about one thing, you pick that one thing, and maybe it spirals out from there, but maybe it just goes deeper from there. And you never know depending on who the subject is, and which way they wanna take it. But if you like food at all or are interested in food, you should definitely check Jesse's podcast out and we'll link it in the show notes. 

Jesse: Thank you very much. That was very kind of y'all. 

Courtney: Thank you so much for joining us today, Jesse. This has been both one of the most vulnerable and sweet conversations and one of the most hilarious in my books. 

Melissa: Thank you so much, and I'm gonna go listen to The One Recipe. 

Jesse: Thank y'all so much for having me. This was a blast.