NOTES

Check out the video for "Where Do All the Good Kids Go?" Pre-save Now That I've Been Honest, which drops on October 20. And get tickets to Maddie's tour.

TRANSCRIPT

Melissa: Hello, I'm Melissa Locker. 

Courtney: And I'm Courtney E. Smith. 

Melissa: And you are listening to Songs My Ex Ruined, the show where we talk about songs that have been ruined by our exes.

Courtney: This week, we're joined by Maddie Zahm. She's so funny. If you don't follow her on TikTok already, you have to. She's hilarious. She's also a songwriter and a pop artist. Before we get into our usual chatter, just tell me a little bit about the song that has kind of popped off for you on social media.

Maddie Zahm: So I've had two songs that have reached a very specific audience, but “Fat Funny Friend” was my intro to the music industry, and I released that about a year ago. 

Maddie Zahm: Every time I wake up, it does not actually feel like this is my life, where this song has taken me, but I'm so, so grateful for it. It's basically just a story of me unpacking. I had lost about 150 pounds and saw the very, very big difference of how people were treating me versus when I was plus size, and I wrote a song about it. And it ended up resonating with a lot more people than I thought it was going to. And now I am on podcasts. So I don't know what the heck happened, but…

Melissa: Aw, it's amazing. I'm just so excited to have you here.

Maddie Zahm: Me too. I'm so excited to be here. 

Courtney: We're going to talk some more about that and about fat visibility on TikTok and the community around it. But before we do all of that, Maddie, we don't mess around on this podcast. We get right to it. So tell us about a song that an ex has ruined for you?

Maddie Zahm: Oh my gosh, listen, I love Muna. I love Muna so much. “Silk Chiffon” was like my song that I would sing when I, me and my ex were closeted. And now I hear it, and I just... I feel sad. 

Melissa: Oh, no. 

Maddie Zahm: But I, I love that song. 

Courtney: I would miss that song so much if somebody ruined it for me.

Maddie Zahm: Oh, listen, I should have seen it in the stars. That was going to happen, but. You know, any time I hear it, I'm like, ugh dang.

Melissa: Okay, so this song is so clearly about the love between two women. And, so how did you come into the song? How…did you guys come out? Tell us the whole story. We're here for you.

Maddie Zahm: Yeah, so she had shown me the song, and that was before we had literally kissed. She was like, “Oh, have you heard this new song?” We were in my car, and I was like, “Oh my gosh, like, is this a gay song? That's crazy.” 

Melissa: Oh my god, wait. It's truly a gateway song. They're right. 

Maddie Zahm: It literally is a gateway song. And I remember I literally was sitting there listening to the song and I was like, “Oh, this is like kind of queer.” And then we ended up kissing, like a couple days later, and like secretly dating. And we would sing this song together in the car. And then I was ready to come out and she wasn't. And now anytime I hear the song, it's like, “Oh shit, like I hope that she gets to come out soon,” or whatever that journey looks like for her. But I mean, I still love this song, but it definitely has undertones of like, “Oh, we used to sing it together.” 

Melissa: No, it was because it's so hard. I mean, everyone's on their own journey and everyone has to make these choices for themselves. But it must be so hard when you're absolutely ready to take that next step and the person you love just isn't quite there yet.

Maddie Zahm: Yep. I actually wrote an album about it. So it's…so thank you to her. But I do miss “Silk Chiffon.” 

Melissa: Yeah, did you try playing like four or five other Muna songs just to see if any of those would work?

Maddie Zahm: I did, and a few of them have really hit. And I will say I've come to terms with the band. We're okay now. 

Melissa: Oh no, I'm like, did you play some other Muna songs to see if maybe they would convince her to come out?

Courtney: To step out?

Maddie Zahm: I don't even know. We don't even talk anymore. 

Courtney: Oh, that's so sad. 

Maddie Zahm: So, yeah. It happens. 

Melissa: But I've heard about that before from other friends who, it's like they're ready to come out and they want to come out and be their authentic self and the other person just can't deal. Like emotionally it's really, really hard for them to, because they know what they want in life and they're scared or they just don't feel comfortable achieving it. It must be so hard for everybody.

Maddie Zahm: It's heart wrenching, yeah. I hope this is okay to say, but there, I feel like there's a clock. 

Melissa: You can say whatever you want. 

Maddie Zahm:  Okay, I love that. I feel like there's a clock when you first start, like, discovering your sexuality, where you tell yourself first, right? And even then, I think there's more stuff that happens before where you're questioning it. Then you tell yourself, and then you tell close friends, and then family, and there's just like a natural progression I think that usually happens. And I think it's really interesting when you meet somebody who's on a different timeline. And I think that's where we were at, was that she was just figuring it out herself and I was at the point where I was like telling close friends. And so it was almost like we were like three or four months behind each other and it just didn't match up. And I think when you're so excited to come out, I, at least, was so ready to just be myself that the idea of dating someone that was like four months behind me felt like a disservice to myself to be able to just be like, “No, like I'm on a journey. I'm going. I don't want to be there. I was there.” And I think it's super interesting now to look back at that because yeah, it's just crazy that once you get the ball rolling, it just feels so natural to be yourself and anything else feels like a disservice. 

Melissa: Yeah, I have a cousin who did not come out until he was like 45, 50 years old. His mother was still living and he just couldn't deal. But now he's married, has the love of his life, and he's so happy, but it just took him that long. 

Maddie Zahm: Everyone’s timeline is different.

Melissa: He just needed to do it on his own timeline. now he's really happy, and I'm glad he was able to do it even though it took him a long time.

Maddie Zahm: Yeah, I also think you're gonna be coming out the rest of your life, over and over and over again. Didn't realize that. Especially when you're like more of a straight-passing looking person. I have to come out two or three times a day. And I think that had I — not really, you know what I mean. I'm being funny. But I think that I didn't realize that it's not just like, oh, you come out once and that's it. You're constantly having to come out. And so if you're not ready, it's okay to give it time because it's going to be a journey for a very long time. 

Melissa: Yeah, although I think if you just start wearing Munna t-shirts every single day, people will know. they'll just be like, oh.

Maddie Zahm: You're so right for that. Yeah, that’s correct.

Melissa: Say no more. I do wonder how many people have been encouraged to either come out or have realized that they're queer because of Muna. They should have like a little tally mark scoreboard…

Maddie Zahm: They really should. 

Melissa: …in the back of their van as they travel the country. Like, got one more, one more for team.

Maddie Zahm: Agreed. 

Courtney: They have a podcast now and they've been posting the clips on TikTok, and I feel like it would fit in really well with the content that they do. They're so funny. 

Maddie Zahm:  They're hilarious. 

Courtney: I think that would be on brand. 

Melissa: But does the song just make you sad now? 

Maddie Zahm: It makes me sad. I mean, they have a whole album though. There's other options. So I could just skip that one. 

Courtney: That makes me sad though. That song's so good. 

Maddie Zahm: It's so good. 

Courtney: I wonder if you'll tell us more about the album that you wrote as a result of all of this. 

Maddie Zahm: Yeah, crazy. So I wrote my EP, like dissecting every part of my self, like my religious trauma, and my body dysmorphia, and all of those things. And when I first released that, it wasn't an accident, but I didn't really think about me as an artist. That just was never really — “Fat Funny Friend” just took off. And so, when it ended up doing what it did, we started having conversations about an album. And me having just raging ADHD, I was like, yeah, that sounds good. Okay, like, yeah, we'll do an album. That's cool. But like, I write just based on what I'm going through. And when we really started having discussions six months after the EP had released when they were like, okay, now what? I'm like, okay, guys, I did not think this far. Okay. Listen, I released “Fat Funny Friend” and “You Might Not Like Her.” I came out to my family. That's all I was trying to do. But when they started asking about an album, really the only thing that made sense to me was like this chronological messy journey of what happens after you write something like that EP. In my mind, they hear that EP, and I don't think people really realize that I was going through all of that in real time. “You Might Not Like Her,” I came out to my parents maybe two or three months before that song came out. I came out to my family to tell them that I was gonna release “You Might Not Like Her.” “If It's Not God,” I hadn't been having conversations with people in my church yet. They didn't really even know that I was queer. All of that was happening in real time while I was publicly talking about it. And I think that when you are somebody who is deeply in the church, was deeply closeted, all of these things, there's this journey that you go on afterwards where you're just a blank canvas. You're just empty. You don't really know who you are, in a way.I knew who I was, but not really. And being raised in the church, I think you're raised at such a young age to have a hole in you a little bit, that's filled by the church and when that is gone, it's still there.

Courtney: Did you feel like you had to build up your own moral compass, your own rules? Or were there things that you already knew that felt steadfast and true to you that you held onto?

Maddie Zahm: That's such a good question. I noticed that I felt the most loved and the most encouraged by people that were not in the church, and that really, that did something to me as a kid that was, like, raised to believe that good people are in church. Do you know what I mean? And I think that made me question — it made me question everything. Where I was like, how am I being violently loved by the queer community who, for the first time in my life, I feel accepted, I feel loved, I don't feel shamed? And how can that happen, and they also don't go to church on Sunday? That doesn't make sense to me. 

Melissa: I had something really similar. I get it. Yeah, because I was raised Christian but half my family is Jewish.Aand I went to Lutheran school. And I remember so clearly sitting in 6th grade religion class and them telling us, “Oh, anyone who's not Christian is going to hell.” And I was like, “Grandma is going to hell?” Like my, and I was like, wait, what? And that just stopped me cold. And I was just like, “Why would this thing that's supposed to love everybody, this God that's supposed to be like full of love and joy, he's going to burn my grandma for eternity?” I'm like, I don't think so. 

Maddie Zahm: Like Grandma can hang. Are you kidding? We love her. 

Melissa: Yeah, and I'm just like, please. That just made me drop literally everything I had believed up until that point. I was done right then and there. And I'm like, what sort of religion, throwing up these walls and these barriers and these gateways? That's just not what I want to believe with my life. And it sounds like you didn't either.

Maddie Zahm: Oh no, it got to a point where I was like, the people that I'm spending time with, and I, listen, this is a hot take, but the people that I was spending time with that were like deeply in the church, they didn't make me feel very good about myself. And I don't even really want to get coffee with them, let alone spend an eternity with them, and I stand by that. I'm not vibing. 

Melissa: No, it's just like, “All these people are going to hell? That's where I want to be.” 

That sounds like a party. It's like, it's going to be me and Jerry Falwell in heaven. No, thank you. 

Maddie Zahm: I'm good. Thanks. That's not a party I'd want to join. That sounds terrible as an afterlife. I'm good. 

Melissa: But I feel like that happens to so many people where they're just find the support and love and friendship and fellowship that they need outside of the church. And it's just, if you want to have people stay, make them welcome. If you want people to listen to you, make them feel heard. I don't understand. But I will just say also, I am just sorry that happened to you, and I'm really glad that you found a community and a support that you needed.

Maddie Zahm: Thank you. I feel really lucky. And who would have known? It was all the people I was told to be scared of growing up. That's crazy. Now, I'm like, “Oh, you guys didn't want me to hang out with them because you guys were going to figure out they're more fun. Okay.” 

Melissa: I was talking to a friend who has a little kid. And he was like, “I've been teaching her that if she gets separated or she gets lost or she gets scared, she should go try and find a goth mom or a goth couple because they are going to be the friendliest, most helpful, kind people out there.” 

Maddie Zahm: That's so true. 

Melissa: Right? 

Maddie Zahm: Wait, that's so true. I have never seen someone with pointy eyeliner that's mean.

Melissa: No,  it's impossible. Do you know how much patience and like kind of zen like state you have to achieve to get that perfect cat eye? 

Maddie Zahm: No, so true.

Melissa: Like you're going to be chill and you're going to be helpful.

Maddie Zahm: That's actually the most true thing. That is gonna change my whole worldview. Yeah. 

Melissa: Yeah, you're lost? You need help? You go find an outcast who has been shunned by everybody else cause they're gonna be really kind and thoughtful.

Maddie Zahm: I feel really grateful because most of the people that are listening to my music are people that have been outcasted and I feel so lucky that these are the group of people that are listening to me. It's insane to me. Those rooms when I go on tour, there's just like an energy that I can't even explain. I feel so lucky. 

Courtney: I also want to touch on “Fat Funny Friend.” I'm plus sized, and years ago I started using Instagram as a way to follow plus influencers and plus models and seeing other body types. And it really does make a big difference to see yourself reflected, and see people treated as though they're beautiful no matter what their size is. And that song resonates with me because the way that people have to explain their point of view just to be seen as human, just to be treated with respect or dignity is something I don't know that people who are straight sized understand or ever experience.

Maddie Zahm: Yeah. 

Courtney: It's a great song and I can see why it took off. And that was one of the first things like in the algorithm that TikTok started bringing me was plus creators doing try-ons and reviews of brands and that stuff is it's so great. To see younger people really being themselves and embracing their bodies. My 20s were in the 2000s and we're all aware of how fatphobic that particular…

Maddie Zahm: Yeah, I can’t imagine.

Courtney: … time in history was. And it's like, we've only recently even begun to talk about how bad that was, but it was.

Maddie Zahm: Can't even imagine. Yeah. 

Courtney: I look back at pictures of myself now and I'm like, this person wasn't even fat, just wasn't Kate Moss then. 

Maddie Zahm: Yeah. I even look back at pictures of when I was younger, when I was in Weight Watchers. And, like, remember feeling like the fat friend. And I look back at pictures of myself, I'm like, “Wait, where did that narrative…?” It was almost like I never — I think since I've been little, I just have no awareness as to my size because of just the way that we — it's so, it's so strange.

Courtney: But it's  nice to see that there's a sense of community around it. The way people rallied around that song, it struck a chord. The representation is — I don't know, it makes me feel some kind of way for sure. 

Maddie Zahm: I'm glad to hear it. I feel really honored that I get to be the person to sing it. It's interesting. I almost didn't release it. So, now having all of these conversations, it's been so crazy. I really owe the body positive and plus size community a great deal of everything that I'm doing right now. So, I feel just really honored. 

Melissa: Why did you almost not release it? 

Maddie Zahm: I had written down “fat funny friend.” I had that in my notes for probably a couple years, right when I started writing songs. And not even as a like song title or an idea for a song, but there were a couple reasons that I was anxious about it. Number one, I was very much mid my weight loss journey by the time that we had done a full version of it. And I think I've been really aware and tried to be very cautious about how I presented it as someone that was going through a weight loss journey because when I was 330 pounds, if I had heard that song and I felt seen, and then I had looked it up and there was somebody that was actively losing weight or had lost a bunch of weight, I would have had questions. And I was very aware of that. And I basically told my publisher, “I am going to be posting it right now, mid my weight loss journey, so that I can say that I posted it. And if nothing comes of it, nothing comes of it. But I know that I can do it now, I don't want anyone to look up this song and see a small blonde girl because that just, it would make me uncomfortable.” And I was very aware of how powerful that song was. And when it started taking off, it was really interesting because I was so anxious about it that I started talking about it online, that fear of, I know that I'm losing weight, But it was really interesting because the body positive and the plus size community just opened their arms so wide for me and it was just this idea of like, once you know what it's like to be the fat funny friend, you are always the fat funny friend. No matter what part of your journey, what size you are, that is still allowed to be your truth. And that took so much pressure off of me, and that was when I really started embracing the song, and was like, “Okay, I could release this. How could I not release this after seeing the response and the okay that I was given by the community?” And so it just became this discussion, and I felt so honored that people were willing to have it with me, you know?

Courtney: That makes sense. I mean, there is something to be cautious about there, but I agree, it really resonates — the idea that once you've had that experience, it doesn't really ever go away or it doesn't change the view you have of yourself. 

Maddie Zahm: Yes, yup, and I think that even though right now, technically, I am in a smaller body than I'm used to, I think a huge majority of who I am as a person came from the experiences that I've had of being a plus size person my entire life. I still make myself shrink in a room. There's a lot of behaviors that I'm aware are because I was told when I was raised that I took up too much space, and I'm very aware of that. 

Courtney: And you have a really appropriately titled, I think, album coming out soon, Now That I've Been Honest, which is so great. That's really clever. 

Maddie Zahm: Thank you. I knew that that was the title before I had even really written it. 

Courtney: That's a trio of extremely honest and extremely vulnerable songs where you put your true self out there. So what does come after that?

Maddie Zahm: Holy shit. I mean, just — getting on meds is what comes after that. No, I'm just kidding.

Courtney:No,  for real. Like, I mean, same energy over here.

Maddie Zahm: It's listen, October is the time for sweaters and medication. And I stand by that. 

Melissa: Amazing.

Courtney: No need for pumpkin spice. Just give me Lexapro, thank you.

Maddie Zahm: This album that I've written is just like what comes after that: The first time that I was dating a girl, the first time that she didn't want to come out, the first time that I was struggling with mental illness. When it comes to the attention that I was getting from the EP, first breakup —  I feel like I went through my high school and my college years in one year because I really didn't get to experience a ton of the stuff that I think kids my age were because I was being such a good kid. And I think that it's super interesting because as somebody who was raised in the church, and as somebody that was shielded from all of these firsts, I think that you turn 18 and people just think that you just missed out on all of it. But what they don't realize is that no, you're going to catch up. But it's just going to be, when is it? When are you going to catch up on it? And I think that whole year after the EP was me catching up. And the album is messy, and it's chronological, and it's in order, and it's hilarious, and it is just a clusterfuck. And that is what my year was. It just up and down and a mess. 

Melissa: You didn't want to name the album that? The Clusterfuck? 

Maddie Zahm: Clusterfuck? No, my label did not approve that. 

Melissa: No, they didn’t go for that? Oh.

Maddie Zahm: They actually told me less fucks in the album. I had to go back. Every song had a fuck in it. I was like, dammit. 

Courtney: You didn't just tell them fuck off?

Maddie Zahm: No, I couldn't. I got what they were saying.

Melissa: I'm totally listening to this conversation, but I'm also still thinking about whether or not Starbucks could start sprinkling Lexapro in pumpkin spice lattes. And I'm really into that idea. 

Maddie Zahm: Somebody needs to call Starbucks. That is such a good idea. 

Melissa: I know. It's just like, if Amazon can start selling me birth control…

Courtney: And Plan B?

Melissa: …and Valium, like why not Starbucks? Just put in a little Lexapro in the pumpkin spice lattes. Just a little bit. 

Courtney: Just sprinkle a little SSRIs in all of our fall drinks, yeah. 

Melissa: Just a touch. Oh, you want the happy version? I would like a double tall grande happy latte. And they're like, yeah, no problem. We got you. 

Courtney: Instead of skinny, make it happy?

Melissa: Yeah, exactly. 

Maddie Zahm: I'm obsessed with thatl

Melissa: Just  a little bit. Also, I was reading a study that apparently, antidepressants are the best treatment for perimenopause, which I did not know.

Courtney: There's a lot of conversation about this in the Reddit, menopause, if anybody wants to join me there. But yeah, doctors are recommending it more and I can see that. Sorry, Maddie, this is like way ahead of where you're at.

Maddie Zahm: No, I'm here to learn.

Courtney:  I am definitely in perimenopause, and I can't tell sometimes if the symptoms I have are anxiety, depression, PTSD, or perimenopause because they are so similar.

Melissa: Apparently it can help with like night sweats, hot flashes, all of these things, which I was like, that's crazy. 

Courtney: Brain fog, that's been the biggest one for me. Brain fog — and Lexapro makes a big impact on it. 

Maddie Zahm: Really? 

Melissa: But also, think about this whole new audience for Starbucks happy lattes.

Courtney: Exactly the audience they want, middle aged suburban moms who need to be happier. Except Starbucks are anti-union, so fuck them, but. 

Maddie Zahm: Oh, you're so right for that. But maybe this will be a step in the right direction. Maybe they'll start drinking them and feel better about things. You know what I mean? 

Courtney: I mean, if the corporate officers of Starbucks could get the happy version, maybe everybody would be better off.

Maddie Zahm: That’s what I’m saying.

Melissa: There you go. 

Maddie Zahm: Start it from the top. 

Melissa: Trickle down economics in effect. 

Maddie Zahm: Trickle down. 

Courtney:  Trickle down coffee. 

Maddie Zahm: Exactly. A happy version is so funny to me.

Melissa: So what is the latest single? 

Maddie Zahm: The latest single right now, we just released “Dani.” 

Maddie Zahm: I have a problem with using people's names in my songs. And I was feeling bold when I wrote the album, and I turned them in, and then you realize that you have to release it. And the amount of conversations that I've had to have with people that I've just name dropped, when I was feeling really spunky and bold, has been crazy. But this recent single is called “Dani,” and I ended up writing it — I think there's like a queer experience that you have to go through where, when you're finally out, and then you look back at your life and you think about a specific friendship and you're like, “That was the gayest shit that's ever existed and I can't believe that I didn't know that.” And that's exactly what happened to me. And I ended up writing a song with her name in it and I am very proud of it. 

Melissa: Did you feel like you needed to go back and sort of make amends in a way? Just be like, by the way.

Maddie Zahm: I mean, here's the thing, I saw her again when I went back to record “Fat Funny Friend,” and it ended up that she was like in a relationship. So the chorus was just like, “Dani what would have happened? If you're ever single, call me Dani,” which is a crazy thing to say and release. But here we are, because I have a tendency to be way too bold, until it's time to release. But yeah, I'm very proud of the song though. 

Melissa: But have you seen her? 

Courtney: Yeah, and what did she say about it?  

Melissa: Did she reach out? 

Maddie Zahm: No, no 

Melissa: Did you ruin that song for her?

Maddie Zahm: Probably. Yeah, probably. A hundred percent. Here's the thing. I'm on my single journey. Listen, I really dove in to the gay agenda the first year. Every stone that I could turn over, I did. And now I'm realizing that there is such beauty in just not dating for a little bit and taking a breather. But it's funny to relisten all these songs and think about the chaos that was my dating life for a whole year. 

Courtney: Yeah, I'm also having peaceful girl fall of not dating. Fuck that shit.

Maddie Zahm: It's just…

Courtney: It's called an emotional vacation. 

Maddie Zahm: Yes, it is. It is. Also how do I date while I'm releasing songs about other people? That's what I'm having a hard time —  is it like I'm really grateful that I'm single?

Courtney:  It does cause a lot of questions to come up that are uncomfortable at the beginning stages.

Melissa: “Who's this Dani? How dare you?” 

Maddie Zahm: A hundred percent.

Melissa: “Like, I thought you were with me. What?” I can see that.

Maddie Zahm: No, I'm grateful that I'm single right now because I think that there would be questions and rightfully so. 

Melissa: But back to the question: Do you think you've ruined songs for people? 

Maddie Zahm: Oh yeah. I'm sure. Yeah. I think my own songs, for sure. A hundred percent. Yeah. I think about that a lot. My exes having to just hear “Fat Funny Friend” on… 

Courtney: Just on somebody's video on TikTok? And the algorithm knows you're connected, so it's probably serving it up for them. 

Maddie Zahm: A hundred percent. I one time was seeing this girl, we had met on Tinder. And she had basically made it known that she was very much only looking for something casual. And I committed to it like it was a bit. Because I was like, “Amazing, I won't tell you anything about myself.” And this was when “Fat Funny Friend” and “You Might Not Like Her” was doing the peak of what it was. And so I genuinely felt like I was like committing to this bit of I'm gonna tell you nothing personal. This is gonna be so fun for me. And then I popped up on her Yor you page. Three months into us seeing each other. And she was like, “Is this you?” And I was like, “Listen, you said casual. I committed. I just told you I was a musician.” And it was one of the funniest things that has ever happened. I felt like Hannah Montana a little bit, but like lowercase. 

Courtney: That's really funny.

Melissa: Hannah Montana always struck me — it was just like, how dumb was everyone in her universe? Like, everyone on that show was dumb, because that's literally the only way it would work.

Maddie Zahm: It's the same person. 

Courtney: They obviously had to have face blindness, otherwise…how? 

Melissa: Every single person in her life had face blindness. 

Maddie Zahm: Do you guys want to know something embarrassing about Hannah Montana? 

Melissa: Absolutely. 

Courtney: Obviously, yes.

 Maddie Zahm: I genuinely thought that it was a documentary about her life for the first couple seasons, which doesn't make any sense. That makes no sense. I was like, oh. And now looking back, I don't know how I could have been so dumb, but I remember when finally, I was like, “No, people know, people know it's the same person.” I'm still embarrassed about that, but it's fine. 

Courtney: It's equally on par with the whole premise of the show. So I think you've taken it as seriously as it should be taken.

Maddie Zahm: Listen, I'm a naive girlie. You tell me something, I'm like, “Oh god, poor Miley Cyrus. That is living a double life. That's exhausting. I can't imagine.”

Courtney: That's so terrible. I mean, it's difficult too. Her dad was her dad on the show. It all feels a little too real.

Maddie Zahm: I know. Now, they like don't, it sounds like they don't speak. I wish them well. 

Courtney: Yeah,  I think he probably is getting the treatment he deserves. 

Maddie Zahm: Yeah, yeah. I love Miley. I also have a fat crush on her. She's just amazing. 

Courtney: She always has amazing hair, no matter what she does to it, it somehow always looks good on her face, which is impressive.

Maddie Zahm: It's just impressive. Even the dancing, I couldn't…

Melissa: The same cannot be said for Billy Ray. He does not always have good hair.

Courtney: No, he alwayshas bad hair. No matter what happens, he's got a bad haircut.

Maddie Zahm: I know. It's like chronic bad hair day. 

Courtney: Luckily, she got Trish's hair. Tell us about your tour. Like, how many shows have you played at this point?

Maddie Zahm: This is my second tour. Could not be more stoked. This is gonna be so special. There's something that just, when I'm in a room with the people, it just — I love them so much. 

Courtney: The energy. The immediate reaction, yeah. 

Maddie Zahm: Cause right now, technically my album isn't out. And so anytime someone recognizes me or says hello, I'm always curious about what part of my EP they relate to. I'm like, “Okay, are they religiously traumatized?” I'm trying to dissect, are they gay? Like in my head, I'm, I'm always calculating when someone's like,” Oh, I love your music.” I'm like, “Okay, what's your trauma?” 

Melissa: Aww, you should totally make t-shirts that say that. 

Courtney: What's your trauma? 

Maddie Zahm: What's your trauma? No, actually that's so smart. Literally. 

Melissa: You can have that one for free, you should totally do it. Just a little like “What’s your trauma? Maddie Zahm.” 

Courtney: Would buy.

Maddie Zahm: Maddie Zahm, exactly. I'm going to do that. 

Courtney: Eligible for commission, yes.

Maddie Zahm: Totally, yes. But, so I think it's interesting because there's just such a deep connection with all those people. And it's like a family reunion is what my tours feel like. So, I've missed them. I haven't seen them in a year. So, it's exciting. 

Melissa: Amazing. So are you going cross-country? 

Maddie Zahm: Yeah. 

Melissa: That's going to be great. 

Maddie Zahm: I'm very excited. Probably Europe, but right now just U.S. 

Courtney: Nice. And we will point everyone to your website in our show notes to get the tour dates, get the merch. We'll let you know when “What’s your trauma?” drops. 

Maddie Zahm: Oh, and I'm gonna send you guys merch. 

Courtney: So nice, thank you. 

Melissa: I yeah, I need merch for sure. 

Courtney: And to listen to the album, which comes out October 20th. So Maddie, for anyone who hasn't found you on the internet, maybe they're encountering you for the first time on this podcast, where can they find you?

Maddie Zahm: Right now you can find me at local pharmacy, picking up my Lexapro. But you also can find me, pretty much my handle is @maddiezahm on Instagram, TikTok. My name is spelled Z-A-H-M. 

Melissa: Yeah. Amazing. Thank you so much for coming on the show, and I hope to run into you in line at the Starbucks for the happy lattes. 

Maddie Zahm: For the happy lattes, and we are not even gonna notice because nothing is gonna get to us. You know what I mean? 

Melissa: Not a thing. Pumpkin spice Lexapro is the dream. 

Courtney: I hope to run into you in the comments section on TikTok. 

Maddie Zahm: Done. Let's do it.