LINKS

Check out TJ Alexander's novels on our Bookshop.org store. And get the Spotify playlist on TJ's website.

TRANSCRIPT

Melissa: Hello, I'm Melissa Locker. 

Courtney: And I'm Courtney E. Smith. 

Melissa: And you are listening to Songs My Ex Ruined, the show where we talk about songs that have been ruined by our exes. ​We are joined today by TJ Alexander, the author of an incredible stream of books. I think you have two books out this year, and one out next year? And you had one in 2022 as well. It's kind of insane. We will get into that later. But, we have always wanted to have someone on the show who talks, who writes rom-coms, who lives rom-coms, and we are very excited to welcome you to Songs My Ex Ruined.

TJ Alexander: Thank you. I'm so happy to be here. 

Courtney: Okay, TJ.

TJ Alexander: Yes. 

Courtney: We don't mess around on this podcast. We get right to the point. So, please tell us about a song that an ex has ruined for you?

TJ Alexander: Okay, I am so prepared to do that. But first, I need to establish whether or not you're familiar with the 1922 silent film Nosferatu. 

Courtney: Wow, I'm excited for where this story is going already. 

Melissa: Would I possibly have my goth card if I did not know that film?

TJ Alexander: Oh, well, I'm a former goth, I guess you could say. 

Melissa: I would like to say that my microphone is currently being held up by Goth: A History by Loll Tolhurst. 

TJ Alexander: Oh, wow. Amazing. 

Courtney: Also, I didn't know you could leave the church of being a goth. I was unaware that there was an exit program.

TJ Alexander: Well, I didn't exit so much as came out. So, the color palette kind of shifts then for me. 

Courtney:  Yeah, okay. I see.

Melissa: You are wearing teal.

TJ Alexander: Yeah, I am wearing teal but in my heart, in my heart it's all dark and shady. But okay, so if, for listeners who aren't in the know, Nosferatu, the 1922 silent production, is one of the first quintessential vampire movies. I think that's fair to say. And it's just known, I think, in film circles as the uber-goth, Halloween flick, right? So, that's happening in 1922. But if you fast forward to 2002, I'm a freshman in college. I'm entering my first year of undergrad at Florida State University — go Noles. And... I am being approached before — yes?

Melissa: But quick question, what's a Nole? 

TJ Alexander: It's a cutesy truncation of Seminole. That's the team. 

Melissa: Okay, gotcha. Not important but, also, I really wanted to know. I thought it was like some animal I had never heard of. Florida has weird animals.

TJ Alexander: No, it's just our, you know, vaguely racist team mascot — is just an entire swath of people. So, I was beginning my freshman year of college. Before classes even began, I met a man. He was slightly older than me, I think he was a grad student, an art major grad student. And he immediately wanted to start dating. And I was such a young 18-year-old fool, you know, bisexual fools? That was me. 

Melissa: Oh, now that's a team mascot. 

TJ Alexander: Now that, the bisexual fools, wonderful team colors. You know, a great halftime show. I mean, maybe two halftime shows because we just can't decide. But he approached me. He was very flattering. He wanted to start dating immediately. And I was just like, wow, I'll just take the first opportunity to date someone in college that I have.

Melissa: I totally get the whole thing about just — I don't know if it's low self-esteem or just it never really occurred to me to like date somebody, but when someone was interested in me, I'd be like, “Oh cool, sure. Let's date.” No idea if I actually liked them. No idea if there was anything in common. Just be like, “Yeah, let's date. Okay yeah.” 

TJ Alexander: Any interest in me was was the low bar that to a relationship that I had. I was like, “Well that box is checked. Let's go.” So, it was this very intense relationship right from the start and, you know, school starts in the fall and Halloween was kind of coming up soon. If I was alone, he wanted to spend like every waking moment together. Which, I was like, “I guess this is how adults date.” So, every moment that I had alone to myself was spent in my dorm room, basking in the fastest internet I had ever experienced as an elder millennial, and downloading music on LimeWire at a constant clip, just constantly. And like I said, I had been raised as a goth. And so it was just tons of songs and albums that I was trying to download that I hadn't had money to buy on CD at that point. And I was really into, you know, goth, industrial types of music. And one band that I and this new boyfriend shared an interest in was the band Type O Negative.

Courtney: Oh, okay. 

TJ Alexander: Which, you know, is... 

Courtney:  Romantic, super romantic band. 

TJ Alexander: Is it? I will say this for Type O Negative. I did a little bit of cursory research before this episode just to like jog the old memory, and I mean some of the lyrics, looking back, are not the most sophisticated I would say. You had to give this to Type O Negative — they, unlike a lot of those metal bands in the ‘90s, had a little bit of a sense of humor, you know? They weren't always taking themselves so seriously, which I think I appreciate. 

Melissa: Oh my god, I just googled the band members. Wow.

TJ Alexander: Yeah, Pete Steele, RIPD. So, when he saw that Type O Negative was on my LimeWire download list of, you know, in 14 hours you might get this song and it might be the one that you searched for in the, you know, the files that purports it to be, he was so excited. He was like, “Oh my god, I love this band too.” And he said, “Halloween's coming up. Do you know about the Nosferatu movie?” And I was like, you know, not really, because I'm an 18-year-old who grew up in like a small town in South Florida. I did not have that much access to black and white film at the local Blockbuster. And he said, “Well, obviously it's this great movie. All goths know it. And there's this thing where if you play the Type O Negative album, October Rust as soon as you start playing Nosferatu, it syncs up and it's this perfect soundtrack to it.” And I was like, cool. 

Melissa: I think I know what I'm doing tonight.

TJ Alexander:  No, don't do it. Well, you'll find out why. Sorry to spoil it for you, but don't do it. I later found out, when looking this up because — I remember what happened, but then I thought, memory is faulty. Maybe I'm misremembering. Maybe it wasn't as bad as I'm remembering. And I looked it up. I was Googling like, “Is this true? Can you play October Rust and Nosferatu and it syncs up?” And Google was like, absolutely not. But the thing that Google did tell me was that in 1998, Nosferatu was released as a TV movie with Type O Negative songs being used as the soundtrack. But it wasn't like just October Rust from beginning to end because October Rust is a much longer album than Nosferatu is a movie. Nosferatu is like a, you know, 94-minute flick. It was actually like three different albums worth of songs that had been arranged to form this TV movie soundtrack. I am sure that is what this man had heard about and thought was something else because he was adamant that no, you start playing October Rust and it's just like how you start playing, you know, Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon with — what's the movie that people think that syncs up to?

Courtney: The Wizard of Oz, for some reason.

TJ Alexander The Wizard of Oz.

TJ Alexander: Yes, he was like, “It's just like that.” And I was like, “Okay, that also sounds fake, but sure.” I'm up for whatever because I am the coolest person in the world who doesn't whine or complain. Let's do it. So, we were over at his off-campus apartment, which felt, again, to me very adult. 

Courtney: Very adult. 

TJ Alexander: And he starts the movie and starts the album at the same time. He's blasting it. It's just like going. It's so loud. Like, the walls are shaking in this shitty apartment. 

Melissa: The neighbors must have been thrilled. 

TJ Alexander: Yeah, all six of his roommates must have just loved this. And, so, we're in his tiny little bedroom watching this on his waterbed or whatever the fuck. 

Courtney: Oh, wow. Ew.

TJ Alexander: And I loved this album. I have to just preface. This was one of those albums that I could listen to from start to finish, no skips — except for like maybe one. Which for me is pretty good. But this album did not match this movie in a ludicrous way. It was just absolutely ridiculous. And he was sitting there like, “You see what I mean?” Convinced that it's working, but it's not working. And the scenes are changing, and the different cuts are happening, and it’s not synced up to the songs or the breaks at all. And one of my favorite songs off this album was “Love You to Death,” which is a sad goth boy love ballad.

TJ Alexander: And as soon as that song starts playing my memory of it is that it's just a silly ass scene in Nosferatu where the guy's, “Oh, I'm coming to Transylvania, everything's great!” And he's like, you know, drinking in a bar or whatever. And he's like, ordering more goulash, please, over here at table four! And this song is just not at all in proportion to what is happening on the screen. And I am like, “Oh, he must know. He has to know that this is not working. He's gonna stop it at any minute and be like, ‘Oh, I guess I was wrong.’” He never did. And we listened to the whole thing, the whole movie. And he was just like, “See, now that is how you watch a film.” And I was like, “Oh my God, I'm going to have to pretend that I enjoyed this.” And I was like, “Yeah, that was so cool and interesting.” But it totally ruined it for me. After we broke up, which was very soon after this, I just stopped listening to this song because it's just, I don't know, it reminded me of all that awkward, trying to impress just some guy, horrible, horrible experience. Would not recommend it to anyone. 

Courtney: There's just so much happening here. First of all…

TJ Alexander: Yeah, let's dig in. 

Courtney: I think we all dated, everyone who's been in college has dated some guy, or high school even, who tries to mansplain culture to you at some point. And it's just, do I have to shrink myself now and listen and pretend, or do I say, “Yeah, no, that was bullshit.” And especially in the 2000s, we were not socialized to say, “Yeah, no, that’s bullshit.”

TJ Alexander: Oh no. 

Courtney: It would have been received very negatively during the manic pixie dream girl era of our lives. Second of all, let's talk about how interesting the metal scene was in the 2000s because, oh my God. So. Look, we had a thing on Fridays at MTV, and I was working there at this time, where we watched all the videos that were submitted that week, and that included all the stuff for Headbanger's Ball, all the random stuff for like MTV Raps, there was some real out there things happening. And metal bands were on a slate of particular labels and had very particular names, and you knew what was coming up when you saw them on the sheet. But it was so interesting to try and figure out who took themselves seriously and who was in on the joke, you know? Because there was a whole cadre of metal bands that were serious about the art, but not so serious about the marketing or not so serious about the presentation. And they would be right next to bands who were doing this old-school fire and brimstone, crazy thing and do that same kind of video. But if you weren't in the scene, you wouldn't know who's really into this and thinks this is the aesthetic and who's making fun of the aesthetic.

TJ Alexander: I will be 100 percent honest. I was a bit of a poser, and therefore — and therefore I don't think I would have, at that age, been able to tell the difference either. 

Courtney: It was hard to tell the difference unless you're really in it. 

TJ Alexander: You know, as a closeted queer teen, what you kind of glom on to when you see the metal scene was the aesthetics, right? Everyone's sad and angry. And i was like, I'm feeling that, everybody. I am right there with you You know, black is slimming, I love that. I just…

Melissa: Black lipstick just brings out the pallor of your skin. 

TJ Alexander: Exactly. Although, in Florida, it was not possible to be as…

Courtney: As white?

TJ Alexander: As pale as you might want. Yeah. I just, I didn't have the money or the time or I guess, really, the balls to really buy into the whole lifestyle. I know some people did in my small town, and I wanted to be cool like them, and I was not as cool as them. And I like, freely admit that. I think that they would agree, also. But who's laughing now? 

Courtney: It's you, on this podcast. 

TJ Alexander:  Yeah! Exactly! 

Courtney: Well, the other interesting thing about metal in this time is that it really crossed into the mainstream. Like Slipknot were huge, Mastodon were huge, and then there was also like a screamo crossover into emo, where they were taking the singing elements of metal, but doing sad boy music. And it was not aggressive at all.

TJ Alexander: Yeah, screamo. 

Courtney: So I don't know, it was like metal became this mainstream thing where some people were Slipknotting it and wearing full masks and, doing a performance. And some people were Mastodon and like flannel doing grunge metal or something. It was weird.

TJ Alexander: I remember there were different kind of cliques within that subgenre that was like only possible in that late ‘90s, early aughts era. You know, again, I'm from this small town, but we still had a tiny little metal scene within the tri-county area. There would be a monthly or semi-monthly metal show where you could go. Somebody's brother was a drummer, so like, oh, we're there to support him. And then, after like six months, his band has actually evolved into more of an emo situation. And you're like, actually, we don't have to support him anymore. It was like that. It was a wild time. But again, it was the queerest that I could get to a group of people, like as sort of mask as the whole angry, screaming into a microphone, extremely sweaty long hair, sort of vibe was — there was a little bit of, ooh, this is as close to deviance as I'm gonna get. So, I think that that was also a thing that drew me to it.

Melissa: You know, whoever feels like an outsider tends to get drawn towards music that's transgressive in some way, whether it's, you know, metal or goth or emo, something that just makes them feel seen or included or lets them feel like they can be themselves. Which pop music does not necessarily, especially early pop music, nowadays, I think it's getting a little bit better. But you had to be like the pretty blonde Hanson brother. 

Courtney: These were the days of Britney Spears and Jennifer Lopez. You had to either be abbed up and blonde with extensions or have a huge, gorgeous butt and perfect figure — and also extensions. 

Melissa: Yeah. And I think bands like, goth metal, emo — anything sort of outsidery — just felt much more inclusive. We've talked to a lot of people on this show and other places who just, those were the music that they felt safest in, which, I get it.

Courtney: We are those people. It was just a different scene for us, but like very relatable.

TJ Alexander: Yeah, when I was growing up in the ‘90s, there was all the pop stuff and boy bands, and that didn't feel right, you know, because there was like an extreme expectation of heterosexuality in all of that stuff. Which I couldn’t articulate. 

Courtney: And performing specific gender identities. 

TJ Alexander: Yeah, exactly. And I was like, well, I'm not going to learn how to do my eyelashes. That's just not something that's going to happen. So, you know, what else we got? What else? And I guess this was like the closest, you know, the closest I could get without going over. 

Melissa: But speaking of going over, I just googled the lyrics to Type O Negative's “Love You to Death” and wow. “Black lipstick stains, her glass of red wine, I am your servant, may I light your cigarette, those lips smooth, yeah, I can feel what you're saying, praying, they say the beast inside of me is gonna get ya, get ya.”

TJ Alexander: Sex, he's talking about sex. sex, which was…

Melissa: Oh, is that what that is? I thought it was a chimichanga. 

TJ Alexander: I don't know if you caught on to that subtle, nuanced wordplay that he was doing there, but like, yeah, they were very sexy. You know, not just Type O Negative, but some of the other bands that I was really into: Tool, t hey had an offshoot called Perfect Circle, Nine Inch Nails to some extent, like it was all very well — yeah, definitely. 

Melissa Yeah, I wanna love you like an animal. Come on. 

TJ Alexander: Yeah, yes. It was not a pop love ballad, but it was like, ooh. A little dirtier, a little little more transgressive. 

Courtney: Explicit? 

TJ Alexander: Yeah, it was definitely the bodice ripper of the music scene at the time. It wasn't the sweet Christian romance novels where they just shake hands at the end. Which, growing up, were the only romance novels my local library were allowed to stock. I know. 

Melissa: It was like the Hallmark movie version where everyone just goes out for pumpkin spice lattes and gives each other a gentle kiss under the mistletoe? 

Courtney: Yeah, they fall in love and change their entire lives without having had sex with each other at all. 

TJ Alexander: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. 

Courtney: Cool, seems likely.

Melissa: As God intended.

TJ Alexander: As the Lord wanted us to. 

Melissa: The Lord wanted you to have a pumpkin spice latte under the mistletoe while uprooting your entire life for a guy that you once had a great moment with in middle school. 

Courtney: That’s…realistic. Okay. Anywho.

TJ Alexander: I would much rather listen to someone singing about: she's got boobs, and I'm a vampire. That, to me, feels a little bit more real.

Courtney: Have you stayed a fan of metal and goth and industrial music?

TJ Alexander: I mean, I'll be honest. I am, at this point in my life, so old. I hardly ever listen to music. I'll listen to the old playlist. 

Melissa: I don't see the correlation. What do you mean? What does being older have to do with not listening to music? I listen to it all the time. 

TJ Alexander: I think it's just that, I feel that with my age comes a decision of like, am I going to change the way that I have done things historically? And historically, the ways that I was discovering new music were things like driving around in my car and listening to the radio in Florida or sitting in a gay dance club and listening to the music that they were playing. And since I don't do those things anymore, because I personally am so old, I just like  don't get exposed to music. 

Melissa: It's a music discovery problem, okay. 

TJ Alexander: Exactly, and I refuse to pay for one of these services that's, “Well, we'll just build auto playlists for you and tell you what you should be listening to.” Because I tried it and, you know, maybe it was back when the technology just wasn't there, but I just felt like I'm listening to the same kind of song over and over again, and I am not interested in it. None of this actually is interesting to me. And so I just became, overnight, an angry little old man who was like, “I'm done with this!” And just, you know, gave up. Honest to God, the last time I was really discovering new music on a regular basis, was through — we're gonna get into a little bit of a thing here, but I don't mind. Fan mixes? Is this something that you're familiar with? 

Melissa: What’s a fan mix?

Courtney: No, tell me more. 

TJ Alexander: So, if you're a fan of something, you know, or into fan fiction or something like that, there used to be these communities where you could go where people were talking about the show or the movie that you're really into. And some people would create things that they called fan mixes, which was just like a mixtape, but — songs that remind me of this character or songs that remind me of this show. 

Melissa: You can definitely still find those, but like on Spotify.

TJ Alexander: I'm sure you could. I'm sure they're, you know, on all the services that I angrily quit, that I didn’t want to use. But back in the day, it was like one of those things where, oh, if you dug through these communities, you could find the download link to them. And that's how I was finding new music in that era.

Melissa: I did find a goth Twilight mix that I was really into on Spotify. Exactly. See? Now you're excited. You're like, maybe I will go back on Spotify.

TJ Alexander: Maybe I will try the old Spotify again.

Melissa: Just for that Twilight goth. 

TJ Alexander:  That's a little hit. 

Melissa: It is fully, like, the Hot Topic of comedy. 

TJ Alexander: Yes, Hot Topic. Oh my god, so we did not have a Hot Topic in the town where I grew up. You had to travel to a real town, go to a real mall to find a Hot Topic. So I didn't even have that. I didn't even have the benefit of mass-produced, you know, ripped t-shirts or things like that. I had to go to Walmart and make my own fun. It was really sad. 

Courtney: That sounds way more fun, honestly, than going to a Hot Topic.

TJ Alexander: It was definitely more budget-friendly. But yeah, it was just like, people could tell, you know, at these shows or if I went to a music festival, people could tell. Oh, you only have one really good pair of extremely wide-leg jeans, don't you? And I'm like, yes, I do, actually. 

Melissa: Dang, that's more than I have. 

Courtney: Fashion is so specific. So what happened after this experience with your dating life? We didn't have a lot of the language to talk about things, like to say I was shrinking myself and, you know, conforming to the ideas of what women should be. So, how did you end up processing this event other than, you know, breaking up with this guy?

TJ Alexander: I did not date another man for a very long time. Actually, this was the last man that I dated seriously. 

Courtney: Wow, okay. That left a big impression. 

TJ Alexander: Oh, yeah. I mean, you know, you see a red flag this big, and I think you, you're like, “The Lord wanted me to take in some information here. I don't want to ignore this.” I broke up with this man on Valentine's Day of the spring semester. Well, no, okay, don't judge me. Let me just super quick explain. I'll just super quick explain my reasoning here. Weeks before Valentine's Day rolled around, he explained to me that, “Valentine's Day is like a super corporate holiday, and I think it's bullshit and I don't think we should celebrate it.” He didn't ask how I felt about it, which I thought was interesting. But I was like, “Oh, I'll respect that boundary of yours. If you don't want to celebrate Valentine's Day, ee don't have to celebrate Valentine's Day.” He said we should just treat it as any other day. And… 

Melissa: And you’re like, “Done. I know just how to celebrate it.” 

TJ Alexander: I didn't plan it this way. He was just getting on my nerves more and more. And it all built up to the point where I was just like, “I really want to break up with this guy.” And then I look at the calendar. I'm like, “I can't break up with him. It's Valentine's Day.” And one of my very good friends was like, you know, lounging on my dorm room bunk bed and said, “Oh, I thought today was just a day like any other day.” And I was like, “You know what, bitch, you are so right. You're so correct.” So, I did break up with him that day. And he  — when, you know, he gasped and said, “Well, happy Valentine's Day to you, too.” And I was like, “No, today is a day just like any other.” 

Courtney: You cannot have it both ways. 

TJ Alexander: We cannot do both. We cannot do both. And I think that the whole experience, but mostly the Nosferatu thing was like… 

Courtney: Just a huge turnoff. Yeah, fair. 

TJ Alexander: It was such a huge turnoff. And I had this idea in my head. I was like, if you end up doing this again, think of what else could get ruined for you. Not just Valentine's Day, not just 1922 Nosferatu, not just 1996 October Rust, a great album from start to finish except like the one track that I always skip. You're gonna have so many things ruined for you. Just don't date people like this anymore. So, I didn't date really at all. And then I met my wife, years and years later. And I didn't have to put up with any of that stuff anymore because I just didn't seek it out, or allow it to come to me, I suppose.

Melissa: Aw, your wife didn't make you listen to a Type O Negative synced up to anything? 

TJ Alexander: No, she's made me watch a lot of films but she has never tried to make me listen to an album that she has quote-unquote synced up to a film. I would give it a shot if she asked, but I would tell her the minute that it was obvious this is not a real thing. This is not a thing that people need to do. And I would tell her, I don't think this is happening. And I, and you know, she loves me. So she would say, I think you're right. Because I would be. So, this is the first time I thought about this particular incident in so long. And yeah, I do think that these, there are these little moments in our lives, and our dating lives especially, where you can look back and say, “Oh, I took a lesson away from that.” At the very least, you can say that about this man. What a good lesson that I don't have to sit through 94 minutes of whatever, pretending to be having a good time when I'm not. I don't need to pretend to have a good time if I actually enjoy the company of the person that I'm with. 

Courtney: Well, that and also I think a person who respects you and likes you will care if you're having a good time.

TJ Alexander: Oh yeah. 

Courtney: You know, and they'll want to not do it if you're like not into it.

TJ Alexander: They might even ask.

Courtney: They might even ask. 

TJ Alexander: They might catch the look on your face. They might see the furrowed brow and the sort of grimace….

Courtney: They might maybe this is a me thing and not a you thing. We don't have to do this together.

Melissa: Have you tracked this person down on Facebook? Just out of morbid curiosity?

TJ Alexander: I have not. I am not on Facebook. The last time I ran into this person — Tallahassee is not a big town — the last time I ran into this person was about, I think, two or three years after we broke up. I went to the apartment of a friend of mine. And he happened to be there because he was then engaged to her roommate. And so that was the last time we kind of ran into each other. 

Melissa: I wanted to know if he was a grown up goth. 

TJ Alexander: As far as I could tell at that last meeting, yes. Still a bit of a grown up goth. He was very short. He was a little shorter than me, which I very much enjoyed. He did not enjoy. So he was always wearing like the very, very high platform black boots to kind of make up for that. At least that's my memory. Again, this could all be very edited for my own amusement. But like that in my memory, there were big chunky boots, a lot of silver chain link necklaces, a lot of guy leather-band bracelets. Do you remember? Things like that, yeah.

Melissa: Yes. I once saw someone describe Adam Levine from Maroon 5 as a walking leather armband and I've just never forgotten it.

TJ Alexander: I mean, it's not the worst thing one could be but it is a thing. 

Melissa: Very much a thing. 

Courtney: It’s accurate. Wow, I'm gonna think about that for a long time. 

Melissa: Yeah, but TJ, I'm very excited to learn that Type O Negative was sort of the origin story of your rom-com career. 

TJ Alexander: In a way, yeah, I think I owe a lot to Mr. Peter Steele and the whole gang.

Melissa: Peter Steele just sounds like a, like an erotic novel… 

Courtney: Or the singer for any 70s rock band, let’s be honest.

TJ Alexander: He had a great name, for sure. Yeah, I think that they would be tickled, the band, to maybe hear that this set me on a journey of just putting people in situations in novels and making fun of them. Forcing them to, you know, overcome awkward situations so that they can kiss later, maybe. I mean, isn't that what the music is all about, really, when it comes down to it? Being horny and wearing a lot of leather. 

Courtney: Obviously, I mean, we didn't know, really, until the lyrics were Googled and clearly the answer's yes.

TJ Alexander: Well, if you ever do listen to the song, it's just — I mean, I'm not going to call it poetry or nothing, but it is a song. It is a song that you can dance to, I would say. Really, you're thinking you're looking very slinky and sexy while you do it, but you're probably just — It's just fun, goofy, goth stuff, which I think is the best. I still love that kind of stuff, for sure.

Courtney: TJ, why don't you tell us a little about the books that came out this year?

TJ Alexander: Okay, so I have two books out in stores right now. 

Melissa: Which is insane, because that is a lot of writing. 

Courtney: That's very productive, I'm impressed.

TJ Alexander: Yeah, I'm getting, I think I'm getting the hang of this writing thing at this point, which is nice.

Courtney: Sounds like it. 

TJ Alexander: Yeah, my first two books are a duology, so they're slightly connected, but you don't have to read one to read the other. Chef's Kiss is the first one, and the other one is called Chef's Choice, and they are both culinary rom-coms. One has a nonbinary love interest, and Chef's Choice has two trans protagonists, a trans woman and a trans man. And then my third book is coming out in December. It comes out on the 5th. It's called Second Chances in Newport Steven, and it is a holiday, second chance, South Floridian, elder millennial rom-com where a trans man comes back to his tiny South Florida hometown and reconnects with his ex-boyfriend from high school.

Courtney: What's the soundtrack to that book? 

TJ Alexander: Ah, there is one, actually! 

Courtney: A Christmas soundtrack? 

TJ Alexander: There is! I deigned to make a Spotify playlist for it. 

Courtney: What? 

TJ Alexander:  A fan mix, if you will, of my own work. And you can find that at my website, TJAlexander.com 

Courtney: Wow. Will you tease some of the songs that are on said playlist for us, though?

TJ Alexander: There's a couple of Christmas songs because my publisher made me. So, like the Jimmy Buffett version of basically any Christmas song… 

Courtney: Strong Florida choice. 

TJ Alexander: …is up on there. And just a lot of the alternative music that I would have been listening to on the radio growing up. I'm the same age as these characters, and so just a lot of —it's not Squirrel Nut Zippers, but I'm not saying it's not Squirrel Nut Zippers. 

Courtney: Wow, okay. That took a turn.

Melissa: I always forget about the Squirrel Nut Zippers, and then I'm always shocked that they existed. 

TJ Alexander: Yeah, they sure did. 

Melissa: Like, hey guys, swing dancing is cool. 

Courtney: Yeah, I'm still trying to account for the swing dancing phenomenon in the late 90s. Like, why did that happen again?

TJ Alexander: I was working like two jobs in high school, so I did not know that people were doing this until I overheard one of my friends asking another friend, “Oh, are you going to pick me up for swing dancing after school?” And they were like, “Yeah, we'll do that.” And I was like, “What are you talking about?” It turned out every single one of my high school friends had joined a swing dancing club, except for me. They all knew how to do the flips and the whatevers and the jitterbugs and I was like, “Why are you, what?” 

Melissa: I think why is a very good question. 

Courtney:  Yeah. Why? What did they say? Please tell me. 

TJ Alexander: I think the lads that I hung out with were like, “Well, I get to dance with girls.” And I was like, Oh, okay. Yeah. And the girls were like, you know, “Guys get to throw us in the air and that's pretty cool.” And I was like, oh yeah, actually that does all sound very cool. So I'm sad that I missed it, but I'm also, you know, dodged a bullet, I think, on a certain level. 

Courtney: Uh, yeah. It reads as real dorky now.

TJ Alexander: Yeah, unfortunately…

Courtney:  Well, that's awesome. Congrats. Three books in one year. Out on shelves. Fantastic, really commendable. 

TJ Alexander: It's a lot. And there's a fourth book coming out next summer, but I don't think that's been announced yet. So, I don't know. 

Courtney: You heard it here first, folks. 

Melissa: Triple Sec: A Novel? 

TJ Alexander: Yeah, but my publisher hasn't officially posted about it. They keep telling me not to.

Melissa: It's on Google, is my point. 

TJ Alexander: Yeah, it is on Google. Okay, so yeah, Triple Sec is the fourth novel. I'm just gonna tell people about it now, I guess. It's a polyamorous rom-com, which I'm very excited about. So, three love stories for the price of one in this economy. Forget about it. It's such a good deal. 

Melissa: Your books are pretty spicy. 

TJ Alexander: Thank you. 

Melissa: Which is fun. But like, how awkward is it to write these? I've always wanted to ask someone this question.

TJ Alexander: It’s getting easier.

Melissa: Are you like blushing while you're writing? Are you just like, “Ooh, that sounds weird.” Is it like you're playing a Twister game and being like, Nope, that would never happen.”

TJ Alexander: I'm standing  up and positioning myself with like, no. 

Courtney: This is a good question. I read some spicy novels, and sometimes I try to imagine in my head the sequence of events that are happening. And I'm just like, but how?

TJ Alexander: Impossible, impossible. I'm not here to, you know, rag on anybody's love scene writing, but there are some that are just vibes. You can't possibly physically do the things that they're describing. It's just vibes. But no, it's getting easier for me. It used to be really difficult. It used to be like pulling teeth. With my debut Chef's Kiss, that's that book is slightly less steamy. There's just, one or two love scenes, and one is a dream sequence, so it doesn't even really count. But yeah, I was so self-conscious. I was sweating while trying to write a single sentence where a person touches another person. And, my editor, who is very lovely and my agent, who reads all my stuff and gives me feedback, I would get, you know, this feedback on early drafts that was like, “Ooh, I like this. But make it sexier.” And I'm like, you know, at that point it's like a magic eye poster. I've been staring at it so long. I'm like, I don't know what sexy is anymore? Is this sexy, I don’t know! So I would get really like into my own head and all verklempt while trying to write the love scenes, but it's getting much easier now. I think in this third book, and definitely in the fourth one that's coming out later, it's just rolling off the tongue at this point. Because when you think about it, it's just like any other scene in the book. It should either tell you something about the characters or move the plot forward. Hopefully both. And it just happens to be an activity that most of us don't want to talk to our mom about, you know? Like, that's the only difference between that and any other action scene in a novel. So, I've already told my mom, a gentleman's agreement, when I give you one of my books, just tell me you didn't read the love scenes. I'll mark them with post-it notes, and I know you're an adult, and you can just lie to me and tell me that you didn't when you actually did, but as long as I have that plausible deniability in my head and I don't have to keep thinking like, “My mom is gonna read this, oh my god.” As long as I don't have that, you know, sword of Damocles hanging over my fucking head, we can just move forward with our lives. And she's agreed, so...so it's fine. Als, a tiny bit of an edible is not a bad idea. 

Courtney: Hot tip, yeah. 

TJ Alexander: Just a quarter or a third of one, just to, you know, get the shame, get the Catholic guilt out the door. 

Melissa: This is what I love about romance books because you'll be at a bookstore and the library and you'll see these nice-looking church women. You know, clean, upright Puritans or something. And they have this stack of books, and you're like, “I have read that book. That is not. What your pastor thinks you're reading or like what your husband thinks you're reading in book club. That book impressive.” And I just love like women will just read these things out in public. They will just be like on the bus reading the spiciest book ever and you're like, “You just read that in public. That's great.” 

TJ Alexander: And God bless them I'm all for for it. 

Melissa: Oh yeah, it’s fantastic.

TJ Alexander: I think if women want to be publicly horny, I'm a big supporter of that. My barber asked me, “Oh, so what do you do?” And I said, “I write books.” And he was like, “Oh, what kind of books?” And I said, “Romance books.” And he was like, “Dude, really?” And I was like, “Oh word. Like women want to read about sex. And it makes so much money.” Like, I was like, “She's not getting it from, sorry to say, she's not getting it from you, George.” So like, you know, the romance aspect of it. She might just need that kind of little hit, that addictive feeling of falling in love. Most of us are not falling in love every day. But you can get that feeling, you can vicariously get it by just picking up a really good romance and reading it. And just feeling that along with these characters. It's just, it's a beautiful thing. It's a beautiful thing, George. Also said more men should just pick them up just to see, just to see what they're missing.

Courtney: That's the thing. It's so easy to get away with reading that in public because other women know what's up and are fine with it. And men just dismiss an entire category of basically everything written by a woman as chick lit. Exactly. And they think they know what's in it, and it's just not at all what they think.

TJ Alexander:  And I think there are tons of romance novels out there now that, you know, aren't necessarily being written by women. You know, there's me and a bunch of other nonbinary authors. There's a bunch of men writing queer romances now. You can find something for everyone out there. You might learn something if you're not normally picking up a romance novel. You just, you never know. If you just give it a shot, give it a try. 

Melissa: It's true, yeah. It's like my dad texted me the other day and was like, he's an avid reader and he was just like, “I got an Emily Henry book. I don't think I'm the target audience, but I read the whole thing.”

TJ Alexander: Oh, dad. That's so sweet. I am very supportive of people who pick up things knowing that they are not the target audience for that thing, just to see. Just to see what those people are looking forward to. Just to see how the other half lives, for example.

 

Melissa: Oh yeah, I will read almost anything. Except for history books. I don't know why. 

TJ Alexander: Oh, I love a history book.

Courtney: Yeah, I was gonna say: no World War II books. 

TJ Alexander: Well, no, I don't. I mean,I'm not that old yet.

Courtney: It's just overdone. I can't. 

Melissa: No, I'm like, I won't watch war movies, and I will not read war history. I'm like, I think we all know what happened. It's fine. 

TJ Alexander: But if it's an obscure piece of history, like some weird little thing that maybe I heard about on a podcast for 10 minutes, I'll pick up a book about that.

Courtney: Oh yeah, I once read an entire book on the history of the color purple. Not the book, just the color. Why? I don't know. 

TJ Alexander: The dye? The Venetians and all of that. Oh yeah, 

Courtney: The invention of it and how it was used throughout history. It was fascinating. Highly recommend.

Melissa: Yeah, but all of TJ's many books are going to be available in our bookshop. Highly recommend them. A little fun, a little spicy, just books that you don't read every day. So why not pick them up?

Courtney:  It’s the holiday season, so treat yourself. 

TJ Alexander: A little gift for yourself. Self-care. 

Courtney: Exactly.