LINKS

You can subscribe to Whitney Matheson's Substack for some joyful internet content.

And then kill all your joy by watching that episode of House we talked about (Season 2, Episode 16) on Peacock.

TRANSCRIPT

Melissa: Hello, I'm Melissa Locker. 

Courtney: And I'm Courtney E. Smith. 

Melissa: And you are listening to Songs My Ex Ruined, the show where we talk about songs that have been ruined by our exes.

Courtney: All right, this week we are joined by Whitney Matheson. And can I just say like, if you were on the internet, extremely online as they say, in the 2000s, Pop Candy was a must read blog. She was truly one of the voices on par with Gawker or any of the “heard in New York” kind of bloggy websites. You just had to know what Whitney was writing about. And she's now on Substack and Patreon with her name. You can find it, and we'll link it in our show notes. We're so, so happy to have you here, Whitney. 

Whitney: Oh my God, that's so nice. Well, thank you. Thank you. I'm happy to be here.

Courtney: Not nice, utterly true. So, we do not mess around. We get right to the point on this podcast.

Whitney: Oh gosh. 

Courtney: Whitney, tell us about a song that an ex ruined for you? 

Whitney: Oh my gosh. Okay, well first of all, I have to say this is like the greatest idea for a podcast. I love this concept. I've listened to several episodes and so many people have had such bad boyfriends. They have the worst stories about exes. And like I don't really have a nightmare ex, but I can say that I feel like the music that was ruined from me by many people in my youth is Portishead, specifically the 1994 record Dummy. And then we can get into like specifics. There are a couple of songs that stand out, but for people of a certain age, and I feel like we're probably around the same age, there, there were certain records that like were make out records of the time. And for whatever reason, that was a huge one for me in the mid-90’s and you know, you listen to it now and it's not really like a full of love songs. Like it's super sad and it's, you know, it’s pretty lonely. 

Melissa: Yeah, god, I sort of forgot about trip hop entirely, like the whole trip hop genre, I guess. 

Whitney: Oh yeah. 

Melissa: It was that and like Massive Attack and… 

Courtney: Morcheeba

Melissa: Yes, what a weird sub genre. 

Whitney: Yeah, and all that music was kind of weirdly like lumped into, you know, like alternative stuff that was like very, very different from it. But it was all part of that Matt Penfield sort of like MTV genre also. It was like a last gasp of like MTV stuff, so they also had like a bunch of videos. I was kinda looking now to see, are the kids listening to Portishead anymore? And I kind of think they are. Like their videos have like 30 million views and stuff which is out of control. 

Melissa: Yeah, and I feel like Massive Attack is having some weird resurgence in like the TikTok world. I think it was House used their song as a theme song? And so for now, it just, every time I hear it, I think about like medical mysteries and that girl who died because she had a tick in her vagina. 

Courtney: Talk about ruining a song.

Melissa: I mean it was Michelle Trachtenberg. It was like Buffy's little sister shows up on House and suddenly has some like strange disease, and it turns out it's because she had sex in a field and got a tick inside her, you know, lady parts. And then, you know, got Lyme disease or something horrifying. 

Courtney: Wow, PSA: No outdoor sex, geez. 

Whitney: Wow, I know what I'll be looking for later. 

Melissa: This is a total tangent, but yes, no outdoor sex. But a friend of mine when she was maybe 18, maybe not quite 18 had sex out in the woods in Oregon. And she got poison ivy all over herself. And he did not, cause apparently he's immune. 

Whitney:  Oh, wow. 

Melissa: Anyway, so yeah, no outdoor sex. 

Courtney: That's a real like “nature issues a verdict on your choices in life” moment. 

Melissa: Okay so back to Portishead’s album Dummy… 

Whitney: Yes, yes. I mean, I've gotta say like everybody loved that album. However, I feel like it was the weird go-to. a dorm room, like bedside, the music of choice for like several years. And so I had to stop listening for a while because I just thought of like all the kind of lame people that I hooked up with in college.

Courtney: We're, we're gonna need some specifics here, I think. 

Whitney: Oh golly. Oh my golly. No. well, I went to school in Tennessee. I went to the University of Tennessee, go Vals, and I was on the newspaper staff and I, uh, had a good time.

Melissa: Was this one of your fellow journalists? Was it a source? 

Whitney: I would say multiple people, but yeah, of course. There was so much, you know, in a college newsroom, come on. Of course there's tons of hooking up in a, well, not even a college newsroom in an any newsroom situation, I think for sure. So, yeah, there was that, there was like, look, you're not very discriminating. There are people you're living in close quarters with. It, it was all very free and new to me. I was a girl who grew up in the woods with like very little, you know, not, not a world like that. I was fairly isolated. So by the time I got to college it was a bit of a free for all.

Courtney: And what about specific songs from this album that got decimated for you? Or are just are in remission, let’s say?

Whitney: Well, the big one was like “Sour Times,” which is like the, “Nobody loves…,” like that's the big hit from that record.

Courtney: Wait, people wanted to make out to that song?

Whitney:  Absolutely. Yeah, yeah. 

Courtney: Wow. 

Whitney: I mean, look, I do have specific people I'm thinking about in mind. I'm not gonna call them that, but it is, yeah, it was like more than one. I mean, it's better than like putting on, you know, Phish or something. Which I can't say is like music that was ruined for me cause I was never really into like that whole jam band scene. But yeah, it's good but it was overplayed for me in a weird context. And I think like even the band has commented on that. It wasn't their intention. The singer’s really smart, kind of intense person who's doing these confessional lyrics and, and yet it was adopted as like dinner party music and make out music. 

Melissa: And also, uh, music to you drugs too, cause I mean… 

Courtney: Definetly.

Whitney: Oh yeah, I guess so.

Melissa: Trip hop was, I mean, there was sort of that like not quite rave scene, but like sort of giant party scene and yeah, trip hop would come on and people would, yeah. I feel like that was the soundtrack for any, you know, drug fueled activities in like that era. 

Whitney: Oh yeah, yeah, I agree. 

Courtney: There's also another song on this album that is typically very much associated with sexy times, “Glory Box.”

Courtney: Glory box being a euphemism for, ooh-ooh. 

Whitney:. Oh, is that what a glory box is? 

Courtney: It's your vagina, ladies. That's what it is.

Melissa: Huh? Does it have a tick in it? 

Courtney: I wish that everyone could see both of your faces. 

Melissa: I mean, yes, in theory that makes complete sense. I just am impressed that, what was her name?

Courtney: Beth Gibbons. 

Melissa: I'm impressed that she would just, uh, put a song out there called that cause her parents probably listened to that album, and good for them for being so open. 

Courtney: Yes. Good, good for them. I mean, Geoff Barrow is the notable member of this band. I say that as someone who was far too on Twitter for a while. And he's very, very active and opinionated on Twitter.

Melissa: Is he really? And, and his big claim to fame is I was in Portishead? Or I'm still in Portishead? 

Courtney: Well, he has had subsequent bands since then, and so I think maybe the Twitter thing started as some sort of a lark to gain attention, but 3ventually went too far. 

Whitney: Oh gosh. Now I'm so curious. I've gotta start a list of like all these things I have to look up after.

Melissa: I love it when people have like one big claim to fame and then managed to like work in it every single conversation. Like I was listening to the radio station the other day and that song “Obsession” by Animotion came on the radio. And I was laughing because the guy from Animotion used to hang out at this terrible jazz club that I used to work at, and he would somehow manage to work into every single conversation as his big like reveal that he had been in Animotion and wrote “Obsession.” And we're all like,” Oh, okay. Would you like fries with that order?” Like what do you want from us, sir? Like, absolutely no one cared. 

Whitney: I love that. When I was at USA Today, I worked with someone whose brother was in, or still is in the band Styx. And I was on the overnight shift for a while there and he worked in the sports section. And often like just, it'll be like 1 a.m., and they're watching like Styx videos. It was just like a lot of Styx. Like Styx videos or like Styx live in concert or I would hear, you know, the sounds of Styx coming from across the newsroom. 

Melissa: Can you imagine that's like your big connection to your brother is watching his weird YouTube videos alone at night in the newsroom? 

Whitney: I was friends with somebody later on who lived next door to somebody else from Styx. 

Melissa: A lot of Styx happening. Yeah,  someone I went to churches with dad, his twin brother was in Air Supply.. And we're just like, wow, Air Supply. 

Courtney:  That's a lot to unpack. 

Melissa: I know. 

Courtney: Just the twin brother part, in Air Supply. 

Melissa: It would be really weird to have a famous twin.

Courtney: Very weird.

 Melissa: Well like, famous in very big air quotes here. It's like I once dated a guy who had a twin and was really annoying because they lived more or less in the same neighborhood I lived in in Brooklyn, and I never knew which one it was. Cause you couldn't tell from a distance cause they were identical. And I was just thinking how deeply, deeply unfair it was to have an ex who has an identical twin because there's just twice the opportunity to run into them, like at the grocery store. And it would always be like when you're like walking the dog at like nine in the morning in your pajamas and you'd just be like, damnit.

Courtney: Which one is it? Was it deeply unsettling to date a twin? I always felt like it would  be.

Melissa: Yeah, I mean, I never got the impression that they were gonna like swap and I wouldn't notice or anything.

Courtney: Well, not in that way. Just like that someone you're dating has…

Melissa: Look, this isn't the Wakefield twins, okay? 

Courtney: Just that someone you're dating has an identical person out there. And maybe you can or can't tell the difference seems a little ew. 

Melissa: Yeah, I don't know. It was more like honestly after the breakup that it was a bigger deal because suddenly they were just everywhere. The whole place was teeming with them. 

Whitney: Oh my gosh. I think I've dated a fraternal twin before, which seems, you know, less intense. 

Courtney: Yeah, more manageable. Cause it's not a carbon copy. Exactly. 

Melissa: Yeah. Really, I don't know why anyone dates identical twins. It's horrible. Don't recommend.

Courtney: We have an ongoing conversation, Whitney, about make out playlists and people that put on a curated mixtape, playlist, what have you for those times. So were people putting on just like the album Dummy or was it more of a like mix CD, a mix tape? 

Whitney: Oh, that's a good question. I feel like, hmm. I feel like back then it was still, I mean, mix tapes were still in.

Courtney: Yeah, you still got a boombox with a tape player.

Whitney: Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I do feel like — I know that entire record just because people would put on that entire thing. Because that's the worst problem: You don't wanna put something on and then you're interrupted by, you know, something that destroys the mood.

Melissa: Like “Amish Paradise.”

Whitney: That's a perfect example. So, yeah, I do feel like, at the same time, I do pride myself — I was like a mix tape queen back in the day. And not long ago I ran into somebody who I dated in high school, so this is many, many years ago. And he was like, “You know, I still have your mix tapes.” And I thought that's the best compliment. Like that's the best.

Courtney: That's the best. 

Melissa: Yeah, but I will say you still make some excellent mixtapes because your Substack links to some 80 for 80’s, 70 For 70’s…?

Whitney: Oh yeah. I did go through a phase where I was making these epic Spotify playlists. I think that was like early pandemic as well.

Melissa: Yeah, but they're great. I'm saved on my Spotify. 

Whitney: Well, thank you. Yeah, yeah, I would do like whatever, 81 songs from 1981 or whatever. Yeah, and  I'm writing something now where I have started to like, make kind of a, you know, make a mix, make a playlist of like songs that kind of fit the mood of what I'm working on now.

Courtney: Okay. That sounds fun. 

Melissa: Yeah, but the mix tape playlists were like, like make out playlists. Cause yeah, you could put on the whole Portishead album and you knew it was pretty safe. And by the time “Glory Box” came on, you were ready or like, or done. Who knows! 

Courtney: That's true, it is at the second half of the album. 

Whitney: I mean, I guess. I'm sure some people had like mix tape, like romance mix tapes. I can't remember ever making such a thing because, I don't know, that doesn't seem very classy to make your own. But yeah,, I'm sure it was a mix. I know the full album though. That was one where people would put the whole thing on. 

Courtney: Well, we have this whole conversation going about if playlists for sexy time are a good idea or a bad idea? Like can you actually put together something that predicts, or even drives, how something like that would go? Or is that an exercise in futility? 

Whitney: Yeah, I mean, my problem is if I made something like that, I usually put like my favorite — I don't know. I would put my favorite stuff. And the last thing you wanna do when you're like in that mood is start singing along to like whatever's on it. 

Courtney:  Right. It's so easy to get distracted.

Whitney: Yes, yes. So, I mean, for me, the perfect, you know, make out mix would be like, no words. No words. That's not, that's not what I wanna hear. Something a little bit ambient. 

Melissa: Brian Eno’s greatest hits? 

Courtney: Just something for airports. That's it. I made this playlist specifically for a guy after we'd hooked up. This was actually only a handful of years ago. Not that long ago — pre-pandemic, but not that long ago. And we were sort of infatuated with each other. And I made this playlist of make out songs for us that included “Glory Box.” And I listen to it now and I'm just like, this playlist is trying too hard. Like all these songs are too on the nose. And I, the mix is okay, like the flow is all right, but it feels so forced. I think it's so much better to find a full album that works that you don't have to think about, and it doesn't necessarily message anything in the moment. 

Whitney: Yeah, yeah, I agree. It is trying to like force a moment maybe a little bit. Yeah, but that's said, like there aren't — I guess like I should be more forgiving of these guys because I can't think of like a ton of albums that are perfect for that mood like all the way through. 

Courtney: Okay, this is like a stereotypical sexy time for alternative and cool people album from the ‘90s. But there is this whole trope from the ‘70s and ‘80s that I've always been fascinated by involving Barry White and that that's like the sexiest music in the world. I've never heard anybody actually put Barry White on though, to make out with. And, um, I wonder like, I really wanna find somebody who's old enough and have them on this podcast and be like, was that real? Or is this just like media manipulation? 

Whitney: Yeah, yeah. I'm sure it exists somewhere, but yeah no, not, not for me either. 

Courtney: Right. Can  you even imagine? I mean, it's just like, hello, here's a very deep bass voice crooning at you. It's not like it's the Isley Brothers or “Love Hangover” or something. 

Melissa: I'm just really hung up on the idea that someone could start singing along at some point.

Courtney: Someone could. 

Melissa: You mentioned that, and I'm just like, that sounds amazing. Like you're just like, hold on but let me hit that high note real quick. 

Courtney: Just Mr. Mister “Broken Wings” right now. Let's do it. 

Melissa: Yeah, then you just like get a little tear in your eye, like “take these broken wings”. Yeah, so many of those, like, like if you think about, um, “Against All Odds,” too.

Whitney: That has a, a powerful climax. 

Melissa: Absolutely. Like what the perfect song to make out to.

Whitney: That was like one of those songs where, um, I had like, I played the piano when I was a little kid and I would have like book of a book of songs, like from movies and popular TV shows at the time. And that was one of them. And I just think back like, “Who was I playing like ‘Against…’?” I was like eight years old Like playing “Against All Odds.” And like the theme from Mahogany? Yes. And like.

Melissa: So “Against All Odds,” I've never seen the movie. I have absolutely no idea what the plot is of the movie, but I only remember one scene that must have been somewhere where they're just like making out in the ocean. And that always seems so uncomfortable that I could just never think of anything else. I’d just be like, “They just have bad decision making,” cause that looks horrible. 

Whitney: Yeah, I remember that must be in the video cause I've never seen that movie and that's the only thing I associate it with. I don't even remember who stars in that movie, but is the man very hairy? I just also conjur a memory of like a lot of body hair.

Melissa: Yeah. I feel definitely a beard was involved and- but just rolling around on the sand in the ocean. You're gonna get salt water in your eye. You're gonna get — none of it seems good. I don't understand it. 

Courtney: I'd rather get a tick in my vagina than have sex on the beach, like, no thanks.

Melissa: I feel like they might go together. Honestly, like sand crabs. I used to never really have any idea what crabs were, and I really just had this vision of crabs, like from the beach, like big crabs crawling around that somehow you would get body crabs and that was it. I was like, “I don't understand.” I had a very sheltered childhood.

Courtney: Now when you hear Portishead, what comes up for you? Do you feel anything? Do you have a flashback to college Whitney?  

Whitney: Well, I have to say I hadn't really listened to them for a while, just because I feel like it was so played out. I mean, which is so sad. But there is some like really great stuff from the ‘90s that I feel like was so played out. It took me a long time before I really wanted to listen to it again. But, you know, in preparation for this, I did listen to and I'm like, it does hold up. Like it's, it's pretty great. 

Courtney: It's a great album. 

Whitney: Especially if you go into it with a fresh pair of ears, mature ears. You know, her voice is so amazing and it's really not, it's not, it was used as a make out album, but it's not that at all. I think there's a lot more to it. 

Courtney: You feel like it's a lot sadder than maybe we all were acknowledging at the time? 

Whitney: Well, maybe that's just me. Maybe I'm just projecting, but it does feel very, uh, you know, yeah, sadder and kinda lonely and yeah. It's in that trip hop genre, but it's also, I put it with like, I don't know, it's not confessional, but it, you know, there are, we're a lot of like women writing amazing personal lyrics at that time. Like, I think like PJ Harvey had a record come out around that time that was huge. And yeah, I think it's good to revisit it, perhaps alone and not in an extra long dorm bed. 

Courtney: I agree so much, in my revisiting “Glory Box” has made me, reframe that song completely because it's not actually a sexy song.

Whitney: No. 

Courtney: We want it to be collectively as a society because we want to overly sexualize women. But really that song is about empowerment and it's about shutting down a relationship that doesn't work for you, and not putting up with shitty partners. Which is so now, like so much of a zeitgeist conversation now.

Whitney:  Oh yeah. Yeah, I agree.You know, there's a lot of music from that time that does not hold up. I'm not interested in hearing it again, but I mean, there's definitely something to that record. I mean, it won like the Mercury- it was huge. Everybody loved it when it came out, so it's better the second time around.

Melissa: But it is one of those albums, it's hard to find a good time to listen to it because it is sad, and it is like emotional and it immediately sort of puts you in this state of mind. And if you're not gonna make out to it or do drugs, do it. It's like when exactly do you put it on? 

Whitney:Yeah, that is true. That is true. Especially because I feel like when I was younger I wanted to listen to the music that matched the mood I was in so I could wallow even more. So, like, you know, when I was younger and I was really sad or depressed, you wanna listen to sad and depressing music. And I don't think that's true for me anymore. If I'm really down, I don't wanna listen to like, you know, horrible, like, you know, really sad music. So it is hard. 

Courtney: It's so funny that you guys should say that because I was about to say, this is where we find the differences between me and you, because I am always ready to shift into moody bitch and I can put that album on any time and be very happy to flow into that vibe.

Melissa: Music to wallow too. Perfect. 

Courtney: I don't think I wallow. It's more like I just tap into my inner angst a little bit more. the feelings that I'm holding back and maybe not letting myself feel all the time. it's really like a gear shift. I can just slide right into it. That's one of the albums that definitely lets me go there. And it's also gated, you know, like that exists for the duration of that album or the song I listened to. And then you can slide right back out. 

Melissa: And then just put on Olivia Newton John's “Physical,” and you're like, everything's good again. 

Courtney: Maybe. What about it? Really, probably it's “Venus” by Banana, but whatever.

Whitney: Nice. Oh, that's good.

Whitney: I mean, I also feel like I choose the music in my life less now than I could back then, cause I have a child who, you know, loves to dominate. Who has great taste in music, but still often, often dominates. I should play for Portishead for her and see, see what the reaction is.

Courtney: You should, and I wanna hear what she has to say. I don't have any kids. My friend just asked me if I wanna go to a concert this fall for a band I'd never heard of called Men I Trust. And I was like, what is this and how did you find it? And she's like, “Oh, my 18 year old turned me onto it and it's really good. And we both kind of chill out and listen to it.” And I'm just like, this is really good. Okay., I need some more teens in my life. 

Whitney: Oh, I love that. Oh yes. I love that. I, yeah, I feel like it's starting to go that way too. Mine's only 10, but like a couple weeks ago, I took her to her first concert and we went to see the Cure. 

Courtney: Oh wow. She went to the Cure!

Melissa: Amazing. 

Courtney: We've been talking about the Cure’s tour a lot lately. Sorry to everyone, but if you didn't go, you should, and if it hasn't happened yet, buy tickets.

Whitney: Oh yeah. It was great. It was really, that was like, okay, I'm, I'm so happy. 

Melissa: And she has such a great answer now to when people ask her later in life, what was your first concert? 

Whitney: Yeah, that was honestly part of my goal, Scott, you gotta have a good first concert story. And also, I'm not going to like Taylor Swift or whatever. 

 Courtney: Same. 

Whitney: So yeah. 

Courtney: What did she say? What was her take on the Cure show?

Whitney: Oh my gosh. Well it was all like at Madison Square Garden, so she's never seen anything like — like it just was beyond kind of comprehension. So oh yeah, it was such a fun night. I adore that I got money back because of Robert Smith. Which is outta control and the merch was like all the cheapest like merch I've ever seen. Everything was totally affordable. The most expensive stuff was just trying to like eat and drink at Madison Square Garden.

Melissa: Yeah, a friend of mine in Los Angeles was trying to figure out what his kids' first concert should be cause he works in the music industry. It's really important to him and he wants to take the kid to the Hollywood Bowl for the first show, for sort of the same Madison Square Garden like massive, make huge impression reasons. He was just trying to figure out, and the only concert that was really working with the timeframe was Shania Twain. And I was like, I don't know. I don't know if you can take Shania as your first concert. 

Courtney: Well, that's kind of a great first concert. I don't know. Maybe not in L.A.

Melissa: It's not exactly, I don't know how cool it is in the long run. I guess it depends on who your kid is. Like is that gonna be like cool or is that gonna be like, oh my God, I'm so embarrassed? 

Courtney: I mean, if they're like my friends who go to private school in L.A. with Kathleen Hannah and a Beastie Boy's kid, then no, that would not be a great answer.

Melissa: Right. 

Whitney: I bet she puts on a show. With many great pants choices. 

Courtney: Lots of leopard prints. 

Melissa: And oh, the wigs. So many wigs. 

Courtney: So many wigs. 

Whitney:  Yeah, yeah, a lot of prints.

Melissa: Where can people find you? What else are you working on? It seems like you have so many different things happening all the time. 

Whitney: Well, I cobble it together. I guess now, you know, I do a Substack, which I try to do every week, and sometimes I don't, because I have other things going on. But that's whitney matheson dot sub stack.com and it's free.

And I also draw. I started doing diary comics during the pandemic. So every day I do a four panel diary comic, and all those go up on Patreon. And then what else am I doing? I've made some short films and those are on Vimeo and I've been to some festivals with those lately. 

Melissa: That's super cool.

Whitney: And does that cover it? I'm working on a book right now, so we'll see what happens with that. 

Courtney: Oh, I love the process of working on a book. I think it's so fun. 

Whitney: Well, I'm gonna lock myself away. I rent like a little house in the woods and then I'm alone and, I don't have anybody to distract me, and then I try to resist just like eating M&Ms and like watching TV the whole time.Forcing myself to write. 

Courtney: Yeah, I’m familiar.

 Melissa: Do you write to music or do you write to…? 

Whitney:  Nothing.

 Melissa: Just your silent thoughts? 

Whitney: Just, yeah, the silence and the, the sounds of all the ticks in the woods

 

Courtney: The ticks in the woods. Yeah. This is another time when music with no words comes in handy. 

Whitney: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Usually I just can't write to, to music. I can do other things and draw of course, but like, yeah, writing, I gotta do it quiet. 

Melissa: Yeah, I find music distracting. I think it's because I'm such a big fan of music that I find myself tuning in way too much to what is happening in the music to be able to concentrate fully. 

Whitney: Oh yeah. 

Melissa: So if I'm trying to write something, I have to do it in silence.

Whitney: Oh yeah. Me too, me too. I've also written a bunch of kids books and then I can be a little more distracted. I don't know. It doesn't require the seriousness, but yeah, usually when I'm writing it's pretty boring. 

Courtney: Has the book you're working on been announced?Can you tell us anything about it? No?

Whitney: Oh no. I mean, I'm still like it's my this year project. It's a memoir, so there's lots of — if you happen to ever read Pop Candy or know from that era, there's a lot of stuff from that era. Uh, but it's gonna be an illustrated memoir. And I guess I can say, it's like told through pop culture. That's all I… 

Courtney: Oh, fun. 

Whitney: That's the framing of it. So yeah, you know, I'm still working, but my goal is to hopefully have it finished by the end of the year. So we'll see. 

Courtney: That sounds amazing. Very exciting. 

Melissa:How exciting. Where can people find you online, obviously your Substack. 

Whitney: Oh, God. Well, you know, I'm also on Instagram. I think I'm locked out of Twitter. I can't really get in there right now, so maybe one day I'll get back in there, but it keeps not letting me in. So, yeah, just like, you know, the traditional spots, but Instagram is probably the place where I'm there the most. 

Courtney: Well, we're gonna follow you.

Melissa: Yeah, well maybe be getting locked outta Twitter is a, um, blessing disguise. 

Courtney: Yeah.

Whitney: I think so, I think so. It sounds like a nightmare over there. And now all these people are getting on other pla- like I barely have time to wash my face. Like, I don't, I can't, honestly. 

Courtney: It's okay. Instagram alone is enough. That's plenty. There don't need to be more for you. That's good. Like we can all limit ourselves if we want to. 

Whitney: Yeah. 

Courtney: Oh, I'm gonna go follow you on Instagram now and sign up for your Substack so that I can keep abreast of how the writing goes.

Whitney: Oh, right on. Thank you so much. I might post some photos of my house in the woods, where if I need to leave, I have to climb down a rope.

Courtney: Wow. Okay, cool.

Melissa: Wow, that's very Rapunzel of you. Well done. 

Whitney: So stay tuned. That's very exciting for photos of climbing down a rope in the woods. 

Courtney: People don't believe that writers go to extremes to discipline themselves and make sure they do the work. But Whitney Matheson: committing. 

Whitney: I need to, I need to. Well, thank you so much for having me on. This is awesome. 

Courtney: Thank you so much for being on the pod. It was so much fun to catch up with you. And also reframe Portishead, which is much needed. A much needed conversation.

Whitney: Yes, go back to it. Play it louder. Play it by yourself. 

Courtney: Play it louder, exactly. 

Whitney: Maybe, maybe when the sun is still up. 

Courtney: And never say vajayjay again. Just say glory box. Thank you and goodnight.